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jpiotrowski
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Topic: Over heating tank Posted: September 14 2007 at 9:55am |
After painstakingly testing my parameters for over a month; 10% water changes weekly (on a 120g); fragging up one of my acro colonies and giving it to people in hopes reviving it, but most of all being so unbelievably stumped as to why my corals were in such decline....I come to discover that one of my heaters must be bad. As many know I live up in the mountains and don't have air conditioning so, I have to pay close attention to the tank temp in the heat of the summer, some times turning off my mh's and opening the door to the sump to aleviate the heat. Currently, the outside morning temp is 40-50F and the afternoon temp is around 70 (that's being generous), so I didn't think I needed to pay close attention to the temps.
Anyway, last night I was looking at my tank and felt the heat coming off. When I checked my neptune it read 83.4. I have read a couple of posts about tank temps getting up that high with little to no problem, but...I have no other explanation as to why my corals are in decline, Other than I very rapidly reduced the phosphate in my tank (from over 1.0 on the test kit I used to 0 in 3-5 days), but that was weeks before this decline.
My question is what have people seen as far as coral decline due to heat. How do the soft corals fare? How about LPS? Fish? Algae blooms? Inverts? Please be sure to note what the temps were, especially if it was excessive.
Thanks,
John
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Mike Savage
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 11:15am |
John, why don't you have the Neptune control your heater?
Mike
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jpiotrowski
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 11:41am |
many reasons really. I stopped using a heater in the valley. The ambient air temp was good enough...usually too hot and I just didn't trust the Neptune to control the heater. I had several issues with the x10's failing, which ended up being a simple matter of being different phases? Not sure if the terminology is correct there. I ended up buying $$heaters that weren't supposed to fail and I guess it worked in a way...I didn't end up with a cooked tank overnite
But now, I really can't say I have a reason...if I monitor why not have a fail-safe?
Thanks Mike!
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Shane H
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 11:48am |
I try to avoid heaters if at all possible. In fact, I would much rather my tank be in the low 70s than add a heater. There have been so many horror stories of tanks crashing as a result of heaters failing!
I generally don't react to temp until 82F.
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Will Spencer
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 12:12pm |
I believe that heat was the reason for my coral decline as well. It's the parameter I would be least likely to test. When I finally decided to do something about the problem and put my hand in the tank I was very surprised at how warm it was. My digital Thermometer read 91 degrees.
I would not be at all surprised if heat was your issue too.
As far as what would decline: My leather have mostly melted away, my beautiful frogspawn is almost completely dead, some of my paly's are on their way out, (except for the ones I want to kill,) Any leathers that lived are nearly bone white, My shrooms shrivled up, but few if any actually died, My Blasto is looking very much worse for the wear.
Those that made it Ok include my photosynthetic Gorgonia, most of my Zoanthids, my mushrooms that have quickly returned to normal after the heat issue was addressed, and my Condie Anemone which has never looked better. Oh and don't forget the Majano Anemone's they are thriving too.
Fish and motile inverts seem to be mostly OK, but I did loose my Naso Tang. I have not seen an algae bloom either during or after the heat issue which I suspect was high for an extended period, possibly months.
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jpiotrowski
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 12:15pm |
Shane,
I agree with you but in the winter my place gets down to 62-4 at night. I originally feared the tank would cool too much. I usually unplug the heaters in the summer but I forgot to this year. In the summer the hottest I saw the tank was 82.2 but it is much cooler now. I don't have any idea how hot it ended up. I discovered it at 83 and it still had 3+ hours left with the mh's on!
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Mike Savage
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 3:46pm |
I have had great luck with the Neptune controlling my heater but I don't use X10s. I only use the Direct Control boxes. (DC-8)
Mike
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TriggerHappy
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 3:53pm |
I totally agree with Mike. I am SO glad I ditched my X10s for the DC8. Things actually turn on and off when they are supposed to! I do have my heater hooked up to my ACII for safety.
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jpiotrowski
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 4:37pm |
Will,
Thanks, that was what I was looking for 91, that's getting near hot tub temp...jump right in!
My thought on my tank is that it approached 84-5F on a regular basis. I realize now that over a month ago when I cleaned the coralline off the glass it wasn't cooler water, but of course I'm just realizing that now 
My birdsnest took a big hit especially when I moved it in favor of the new aquascape. The acros were the ones that took it worst of all, but haven't lost one yet. The only thing I have lost is one milli, but another just a short distance away looks good although there is very little polyp extension. Fish are fine; algal film seems to gather as soon as I wipe it off.
My thoughts...Higher than normal temps, large phosphate reduction and frequent power outages (some lasting 10 yours) have combined for this mess! This weekend I will disconnect my pump and make sure the flow is not partially blocked. Otherwise, I have checked everything and all seems in order.
I googled dc8 and I don't think you guys are refering to jumbo jet liners or the green lanter please fill me in!
Jonn
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Mike Savage
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 5:02pm |
Direct Connect 8, Direct Connect 4, and Direct Connect 4HD.
Mike
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BobC63
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Posted: September 14 2007 at 5:41pm |
jpiotrowski wrote:
After painstakingly testing my parameters for over a month; 10% water changes weekly (on a 120g); fragging up one of my acro colonies and giving it to people in hopes reviving it, but most of all being so unbelievably stumped as to why my corals were in such decline....I come to discover that one of my heaters must be bad. As many know I live up in the mountains and don't have air conditioning so, I have to pay close attention to the tank temp in the heat of the summer, some times turning off my mh's and opening the door to the sump to aleviate the heat. Currently, the outside morning temp is 40-50F and the afternoon temp is around 70 (that's being generous), so I didn't think I needed to pay close attention to the temps.
Anyway, last night I was looking at my tank and felt the heat coming off. When I checked my neptune it read 83.4. I have read a couple of posts about tank temps getting up that high with little to no problem, but...I have no other explanation as to why my corals are in decline, Other than I very rapidly reduced the phosphate in my tank (from over 1.0 on the test kit I used to 0 in 3-5 days), but that was weeks before this decline.
My question is what have people seen as far as coral decline due to heat. How do the soft corals fare? How about LPS? Fish? Algae blooms? Inverts? Please be sure to note what the temps were, especially if it was excessive.
Thanks,
John |
A reading of 83.4 is on the "warm" side, but - alone, that shouldn't be harming your corals... unless, the temp is fluctuating from that 83.4 down several degrees to some low temp point. IMO going from 83.4 lower than say 4 - 5 degrees on a daily basis is more detrimental to your SPS than just the flat 83.4 reading. Usually when heaters go "bad" they go bad stuck "on" and people boil their tanks - but that is not always the case. If you get longish periods of "on" followed by almost being stuck "off" you may have a larger heating / cooling cycle going on than you realize; and it would be the "swing" in temps that would most harm your corals...
As far as flat out 'max' allowable temps with SPS I've known people who regularly keep their tanks at a stable temp around 82 - 83 degrees without problems (although I personally don't advocate that high a temp)...
And the rapid pO4 reduction might have started the decline "process" IMO - especially on the SPS. Making them more susceptible to the effects of a temp swing...
In general (as with almost every other bad thing you can think of) SPS are more sensitive to changes than softs or even LPS.
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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jpiotrowski
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 9:10am |
Carlos,
I agree it was a combination of events, though unplugging the heater seems to have been the last little thing to do to eleviate some of the stress. I noticed ok polyp extension on my surviving milli and some of my acros were actually extending there polyps slightly, whereas before I could see the retracted polyp but it definately wasn't extended.
Besides the temp (fluctuations) and phosphate reduction I also had my hands in the tank cleaning all the coralline; experimenting with the Ca and CO3 consumption and numerous water changes. Meaning, there have been a lot of changes and events over the past several months.
I am going to start a new post about temp. feel free to post
John
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jpiotrowski
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 12:15pm |
So I will have to add one more thing to my 6 month maintenence on the tank. ..
After unplugging the heaters I decided to pull them out and adjust the temps...my x10 wasn't working on that circuit...i found that both heaters were completely encrusted with coralline algae. Since they are in the sump, I never see them and since they are so hard to get to I very rarely take them out. After cleaning, I lowered the thermostat to 75ish. That was this weekend and for the past three days, my neptune says the temp is 75.1 early morning!
Since lowering the temp I have seen steady improvement in polyp extension. Some polyps I haven't seen in a while are becoming visible. Even the worms on my christmas tree rock were out last night! Sadly, I have lost a few acros, both green and pink birdsnest and about 50% of each acro colony is dead, but I will be able to start over with some different corals!
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 12:21pm |
John, I'm glad you checked those heaters! It sounds like they are working properly now.
Mike
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Cody Pearce
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 3:51pm |
Dang 175 bucks for the DC8? Why is it so expensive. I to have had problems with my X10s.
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My fish swim naked.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 9:29pm |
It is much cheaper if you get it with a ACJr.
Mike
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Cody Pearce
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 10:52pm |
Mike Savage wrote:
It is much cheaper if you get it with a ACJr.
Mike |
That sucks I already have an AQII. They only charge 70 bucks for the DC8 added on to the package, but costs 180 separately. That makes no since at all to have that huge of a discount.
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My fish swim naked.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 11:41pm |
You could check with Bugzme. He had a couple DC-4s for sale a few months ago and probably still has them. I don't remember if they were the HDs.
Mike
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Corey Price
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Posted: October 03 2007 at 8:28am |
Yep, heaters caused all sorts of issues with my tank- I haven't run them since I pulled them out. I only use them now for mixing up water.
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Mike Savage
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Posted: October 03 2007 at 2:16pm |
Well for what it's worth. So far I am not running a heater on the new tank but it has just been set up since May.
Mike
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