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speyside712 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 30 2013 at 11:21am
Has anyone ever used this med before?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12098

I have been thinking of using it to remove a flatworm problem, but I also have an army of bristle worms in the sand and rock, and I am afraid this will kill all of them and then I would have a huge spike and cycle do to all the dead worms.  Does anyone know if this kills bristle worms as well, or has anyone had any experience using it?

I bought a frag and I believe it must have had one or two flatworms on it.  Soon after I noticed them showing up on my mushroom corals, and a few on my hammer coral.

They are very small red circles, about as big around as a pencil erasure, and totally flat.  They are definitely flatworms.

I was able to freshwater dip a lot of my corals and remove them, if you just give the coral a little shake they all fall off in the freshwater.  But I haven't been able to completely extract them from the tank.  I've tried siphoning them one at a time, but I always seem to miss some and they start to come back.  I would really like to be rid of them once and for all.  They are definitely bad for coral, the mushrooms don't seem to mind them, but they overwhelmed my large hammer coral and all 30 heads died.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 11:57am
I have no information for you on prazipro killing bristleworms. My gut feeling is actually telling me that it wouldn't kill the bristleworm. One easy way to find out is to pull a bristleworm from your tank and put it in a cup of tank water with a drop of praziquantel ( prazipro ). I use praziquantel mostly to treat internal parasites, and have had great success with it. I've personally never had a flatworm problem, so I've never used it to treat flatworms directly.

I would recommend Flatworm Exit as many have used it to great success.
 
Flatworms in and of themselves release a lot of "toxic" waste when they are killed in any large amount. So regardless of the medication you choose, and it's effect on bristle worms, you'll want to watch the contaminate levels in the tank very carefully.

My recommendation would be to manually remove as many of the flatworms and bristle worms as possible, then dose the tank to eradicate them. To remove the flatworms, the freshwater dip does wonders. Bristle Worms react very poorly to cold water. One of the best ways to get them out of the rocks is to remove all of the corals from the rock ( as to not shock them in the cold water ) and let the rocks sit in cold water ( 40-50 degrees ) for several minutes. You will see the bristle worms float to the top, and you can net them out and return the rock to the warm tank water. After manually removing as many of the pests as possible, dose the tank.

After you have given the preferred dosing method enough time to take effect, make sure you do frequent small water changes and monitor the nitrate cycle closely. Run carbon in the tank after all flatworms are dead, and make sure your skimmer is running at optimal levels. This should take care of the "toxins" released by anything that dies from the treatment. Always make sure your water is well oxygenated while treating for anything. The easiest way to increase oxygen in the aquarium is simply to remove the collection cup from the skimmer! Let those bubbles run free!

Our local "guru" in dealing with pests is definitely Reefd Up. ( Nikki ) send her a pm, or visit her site. I'm sure she'll have other awesome ideas on how to deal with these little bugs!

Good Luck!


Edited by Pete Moss - January 30 2013 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefOn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:02pm
I have not used it in that respect, we do use it for quarantine systems as the first step in removing internal parasites. When treating a system for flatworms, I would recommend using flatworm exit. Only because that is what I am familiar with. The directions from this seem to be the same as the exit though.



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Bryce View Drop Down
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I used it and have bristleworms and it didnt kill them. Granted my worms stay in the sand. It will drive your skimmer nuts for 2 weeks or so even after a large water change, it will also drop your PH, if you can take the skimmer cup off and keep your skimmer running and just overflowing into the sump for airation and to keep the PH up. I also did not use it for flatworms, I used it for my fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speyside712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:14pm
I have a hang on back skimmer, so that option wouldn't work for me.  Although I see why you did that it sounds like a good idea if you have an in sump skimmer.

That doesn't sound good, lots of dead flatworms and you can't skim?

I think I would be able to siphon all of them if i could see what I was doing, how my canopy is set up, you have to remove the whole thing to get your arm into the tank, and this removes the light, so the whole tank is dark and you cant see what your doing.  making it nearly impossible to see and siphon out tiny flat worms...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:17pm
I would be more than happy to help you filter out the flatworms. I can come over with a couple extra lights which we can clip on the rim of the tank after we've removed the canopy. Using airline tubing that filters through a filter bag, you can get those suckers out easily.

To add oxygen to the tank and keep your skimmer running, just put an airstone powered by an air pump in the front corner where the bubbles will hopefully not get trapped under rocks and corals.

And you can always try a Melanurus Wrasse ( halichoeres melanurus ). More often than not they'll munch on flatworms. It would control the population, but probably not eradicate it.

Edited by Pete Moss - January 30 2013 at 12:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:18pm
yea DO NOT use prazi with a hang on back skimmer as it will overflow it even on the lowest water level setting/ highest air setting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speyside712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:25pm
I think I will try and step up my manual removing process before i resort to any dosing.  All of my rock is superglued together, so its fairly difficult to remove anything (only way I could get the aquascape I was shooting for).

I think i'm going to put the head lamp on and go to work siphoning them, there are probably only 20 or so visible, if i do this every day or so for a week maybe i can get them all.  They all seem to congregate in the same area of the tank, directly under the powerhead where the flow is the slowest, i've never seen a coral anywhere else in the tank have one attached, so hopefully my problem is contained to this small area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speyside712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:28pm
Hey thanks Pete, if I have any trouble getting them out by hand i'll shoot you a PM for some help.  Clip on lights sound like a lot of help.  I have an exquisite wrasse but he doesn't seem interested in the flatworms at all, he actually almost never leaves the surface of the water, strange little guy.


Thanks for the advice bryce, now that you mention bubbling i'm glad i didnt dose any, as my skimmer probably would have gone nuts and been all over the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 2:09pm
No problem man! It's not that big of a deal if you do need help, I enjoy getting my hands wet from time to time :P

And I'm glad he thought of your HOB overflowing, because I didn't and he's 100% correct!

And if you haven't purchased the meds yet, I'm 99.9% certain I have some prazi kicking around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote speyside712 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2013 at 3:29pm
Hey awesome, thanks.
Ya i haven't bought anything yet.

Besides the flatworms I have a sick fish at the moment I mentioned in another thread.

One of my occellaris clowns is hanging near the bottom, not moving just swimming to stay still in the current, breathing really fast, and ignoring food. he started this yesterday afternoon.  He also had some white stringy poo yesterday but that has since gone away.

I've heard that stringy substance can possibly be the sign of an internal parasite which is usually a worm, that the prazi would probably kill too.

The other possibility is that I am painting my house, and maybe the fumes got to him.  I know they aren't good for the fish so i've been trying to air it out as much as possible, but theres only so much you can do.  I've been turning off the filter and skimmer while i paint to reduce the new air entering the water until the fumes subside a little.  They are both back on now, as I took a break and didn't paint yesterday so the fumes are a lot less today.  None of the other fish or coral or inverts are showing signs of distress, so that leads me to believe it might be a parasite.  Although he didn't show any signs of being sick until 2 days into painting... i've had the fish a year and half with no problems until now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete Moss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2013 at 6:40am
Stringy white discharge out of the the fish's rectum ( yeah his butt ) are a strong indicator of internal parasites, which is exactly what praziquantel was designed to kill in the first place.

Sounds like it's time for a prazi party.
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