help anyone
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Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: SPS
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions SPS corals.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1850
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Topic: help anyone
Posted By: nottinainthere
Subject: help anyone
Date Posted: February 06 2004 at 5:16pm
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can i know which are the suppliments to get if i want one of these corals button polyp. and what measurements should i take to ensure a long lived life ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Replies:
Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: February 06 2004 at 5:39pm
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The only thing I would add is Iodine. Just make sure your alkalinity, pH, salinity, temp., etc. stay stable. ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 06 2004 at 5:58pm
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Jake, do think it matters what form the iodine is in (I2, I-, IO3-)? ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: imaexpat2
Date Posted: February 06 2004 at 8:03pm
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I am with Jake P. on this one. I have many of the same and add SeaChems Iodine without any negative results. I have also herd of some adding Lugols but this is concentrated and over dosing could be pretty easy to do as such I will stick to SeaChems Iodine. I have a 135 and a 55 that I add this too on a pretty regular basis, usually as per the directions on the bottle. I can tell a difference in my Xenias if the levels drop off too much. If you have Starburst Polyps in your collection, in my experience as you add more Iodine and increase the levels on this high side of things, your polyps will not open as fully and will start turning kinda brown and looking weak. So watch the dosing of this and dont get to ambitious with it. JMHO.... ------------- 300 gal. Frag System 300 gal. Live Rock Vat 240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 75 gal. Softies only Tank 65 gal. LPS/Softies 24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef |
Posted By: nottinainthere
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 5:02am
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**So watch the dosing of this and dont get to ambitious with it so how much should i add in ? i've a 16 g tank. 3 chromis. 1 neon blue. i should probably get one or two of the above mentioned. so approx. how much should i add. and i heard about calcium and calcium reactor is essential for these corals. so should i include those in my shopping cart ? ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 5:16am
| I have read that as long as you are doing regular water changes you dont need to add additional iodine. I was dosing lugols 2 drops per week just as stated on the bottle but quit about 6 months ago. I have seen no change in any of my aminals. I would not add it if you cant test for it...... OH speaking of tests. I have a salifert copper test kit if any one wants it. Im downdown....... |
Posted By: Jared Wood
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 7:09am
If you are very new to this hobby, you might have a hard time getting a straight answer on this message board. Everybody does their tank a little different. Some people do water changes every week and add supliments every night while other just add tap water and some salt once in a while. Here is what I have picked up during my short sojourn in the hobby. For the coral you listed you really don't need to do anything except keep all the measurements as constant as possible. But if you want to do everything possible.... if you want the best. Well then there is just one simple rule. Make your tank conditions as close to the ocean as possible. I just did a search for ideal water parameters in a reef tank and found this link http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/waterquality/l/bltkitchartreef.htm - http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/waterquality/l/bltkitchartr eef.htm maybe it will give you some definative answers. Good luck. ------------- In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth ... then He let it cycle. Have you read my http://www.jaredwood.com/observations.htm#dinosaur" rel="nofollow - dinosaur theory yet? |
nottinainthere wrote:Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 7:17am
I'm assuming you use Aragonite substrate. The fish don't really matter here, but the coral you have mentioned are all considered to be soft coral. In other words, those coral do not grow a hard calcium skeleton. They do, however, have some need for calcium as do the fish. As Reefobsessed stated, regular water changes adequately replace the Calcium and all trace elements utilized by the average reef aquarium. Only reefs with lots of coral need the extra calcium and elements provided by additives and a Ca Reactor. Additives are not needed in the average reef aquarium, but they are desirable for more rapid coral growth. The ideal water changes for most reef aquariums is 10% monthly. This is information gained from a study done by Instant Ocean using their salt. I'm sure they erred in their favor so those who don't get around to doing a water change for many months are not really hurting anything. I once performed a water change test. I went 18 months without a water change. I don't recommend it because my "Alkalinity" went way down, coral were stressed and hermits kept dying. P.S. If you don't know the term "Alkalinity", it would be very wise to understand that term and other water parameter terms before using any additive. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 7:35am
If I may philosophize here. 
A problem with a board like this is that anyone can offer their opinion, but it's difficult for a newbie to recognize bad advice. I once thought I knew just about everything,  only to learn later that my knowledge was just a drop in the bucket.
The time spent considering all viewpoints may confuse at first, but will most always result in successful reefkeeping.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 10:16am
I like Lugols which I think is I2. Which from what I understand provides I- and IO3-, but I'm not an expert in this area. ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 11:39am
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Thanks for replying Jake. I'm not an expert either. I like to know what others are doing and why. How much do you add in what size tank with what kind of corals/algae? And what benefits do you attribute to this? Do you test your water for iodine? ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 2:21pm
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I would just do regular water changes. Test before you dose anything, including iodine. I have a Salifert Iodine test kit and it seems to be the hardest of all the tests. IMO our salts hold all the iodine needed. and what measurements should i take to ensure a long lived life My, Opinion... for your tank I would test for salinity & nitrates. I assume the tank has fully cycled? Keep the salinity stable and the nitrates as low as possable. You can advance with your tank's needs. |
Posted By: nottinainthere
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 6:43pm
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sorry no i'm using crushed corals. and i'm just getting very worried. because i heard that they are not good and might caused death of fish. i surppose that made my other neon goby died with perfect water chemistry , now lefting with only one. and i'm using PH , gravity , ammonia , nitrite , nitrate test. and i decided on doing a monthly water change of 25% . had problems with PH so im also using a PH buffer and a normal fluoresecnt light for previously used by freshwater. please comment on my way of dealing with fish. and the crushed corals. should i change it to live sand and is my light stong enough to keep corals or should i get two of those blue lights as recommened by other guys. thanks your help is really appreciated. this is the only forum that answer my questions enthusiasticly. thanks alot ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 9:01pm
| nottinainthere - crushed coral substrate is Aragonite. Crushed coral substrate is NOT going to kill fish. Wait, maybe I should read the begininng of this thread first before I continue. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 07 2004 at 10:13pm
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Marcus, You just said exactly what I was going to say. Thought I too better go back and read again. nottinainthere- can you please tell us about your lighting one more time. I'm not sure I understood what you just said. If you are using one flourescent freshwater light, then I'm sure you will get replies here. Is that what you just said? Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: imaexpat2
Date Posted: February 08 2004 at 7:14am
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How old is this tank (been set up), and has it cycled, and what are the specs on Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates? Can you give us some more details on this tank? I assume your using "NO" light bulbs if this was perviously a freshwater tank or your using the lights that came with it at the pet store, how many bulbs and what wattage? It will be much easier for us to help you out with more detailed information. With a tank that small, I dont know if I would really add any supplements, if I did it would be vary sparingly added. These are pretty easy corals and water changes should pretty much handle things for the most part. Guess I overlooked the tank size when I first posted. You do have some great and knowlegable people responding already to your post. With some more detail they should be able to get you headed in the right direction. ------------- 300 gal. Frag System 300 gal. Live Rock Vat 240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 75 gal. Softies only Tank 65 gal. LPS/Softies 24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 08 2004 at 8:34am
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OK, here it goes. I have a 25 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump/refugia. I have had experience with small tanks and large tanks both commercially and personally. I would add B-Ionic everyday. This would help stabilize your pH and add crucial trace elements. Especially since you do not have anything helping to keep your pH up at night. Iodine is a great additive as well. Your light bulbs may be too old to put out the proper color temp of light needed for these corals to grow. They will grow under under temp of light but may or not gain the color and growth rate that you want. Did you already state how many bulbs you had on the tank? If not, how many? What type of bulbs? How much live rock? Are you still using the under gravel filter from the fresh water tank? What are you using for mechanical filtration? Is the only thing that has died a neon blue goby? If so, get used to it, fish die. Hopefully, some day we as hobbyists can figure out the perfect environment to keep fish alive fo decades as they do in the wild. Calcium is essential for both fish and corals, but the corals that you have to do warrant the expense of a reactor. That is not to say that it would not help, but they are very touchy, especially with a small tank. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 08 2004 at 6:13pm
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Sounds like we can help when you respond with more info. Here's what I would say so far...
1) Crushed coral substrate cannot kill fish, but fish can die if they can't find the right food. Sometimes they eat and still don't live. Neon gobies eat parasites off of other fish. They can survive for a while on other foods but eventually die. Their life span is short anyway, so their death in an aquarium is written in the stars. 
2) Why did you decide to do monthly 25% water changes? Was that for the pH problem? 3) What problems did you have with pH? And what buffer product did you use? What was the reading before and after you started using the buffer product? 4)  Your light is probably not enough to grow most of the coral you listed. Mushrooms can do okay under fluorescent tubes. It's not clear whether you have one or two tubes. It's high light energy that is needed here. Two NO (normal output) fluorescent lights just don't provide much energy. If you have two tubes and decide to stay with two tubes for now, I would recommend a URI Super Actinic and an Aquarium/Plant Growth tube. These will provide the right type of light for mushroom coral growth Coralline algae growth and make the colors as bright and pretty as possible.
5) If the substrate is old, perhaps came with the tank and the lighting is weak as I am assuming, these can lead to a problem which decreases pH. As was previously asked, how long has the tank been running? Do you see any little critters in the substrate? 6) You told us that you have 3 Chromis. Is there any other stuff in the tank, like live rock, other fish, shrimp, etc.? 7) Do you have a mechanical, hang on the back or other type filter? Sorry for asking so much, but since we cannot see your tank, we need to have this information in order to help you. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 08 2004 at 7:05pm
| For the record, I agree with 25% water change per month or more. I do 25% per week. But everyone does things differently. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 08 2004 at 11:19pm
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Hey Marcus, you almost hooked me into a debate, but then I realized that I had already stated my position.
Frankly,  I wonder how you justify the expense and time spent on such a silly hobby  (I've been waiting to use that emoticon!  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: nottinainthere
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 2:43am
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ok thanks guys ok i got .... hmmm the tank has been fully cycled like it was set up 1 week before december. now its' ammonia 0 , nitrite 0 and 2 weeks ago nitrate is still 5 now it's 0. and yeah im using only 1 flourescent light previously bought for freshwater fish. i really have no idea how many watts there are. i think i bought the lights 6 months ago. oh and live rocks just 1 tiny one like probably 2 kilograms sorry i dunnoe how to measure in Ibs. im not using undergravel filter. mechanical filtration.no ideea whats that. but i got this pump thing that sucks water and it goes above the tank into a compartment box that like goes through the sponge and below the sponge is a whole bunch of white colour thing that looks like a macaroni just that it doesnt curls. hmmmm i think i got a seachem marine buffer for raising ph to 8.3. and a Geoliquid for marine tanks. for the ph thing it work well it rise up to 8.3 yesterday. hmm and no before the nitrogen cycle complete many other fishes died. like clownfish. bicolour pseudochromis. firefish goby . yeah all this fishes died before the nitrogen cycle is complete and 1 neon goby after. ( i wasnt good then i was told that only one week would be needed to cycle the tank ) it was later on that i got to realise everything then i started planning it seriously. currently im still having 3 chromis and 1 neon goby. all are eating well. and sorry because i heard from the net live sand is recommended and not crushed corals as they said fish will not survive under such lousy conditions. so i was scared that my fish will die because i used crushed corals. and sorry about the arogonite thing because i saw it somewhere near live rocks so i assumed it's live rock. theres also few artificial housing in the tanks the chromis are all using one and the neon goby hides under the rock at night. i decided to do a montly water change because some guy told me to do it once a week at 10 % . i personally felt it was too much and is not needed so montly would be good. but i have no idea whats litter critters in the substract is. sorry for the late reponse because im living at the other side of the world and hmmmm. i could recognise certain stuff but i cant remember the names so sorry if i use a long long expression to represent them. thanks for your help. really. the previous forum i went really suck those people even chased me outta the forum. they said i asked too many qns and i did not listen to "good advice" they even said im a fish torturer ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 6:58am
nottinainthere, May I ask, are you near India or somewhere in that part of the world? The reason I ask is because of some of the phrases you use. I talk to lots of people from India, and they would say "I'm still having 3 chromis..." when the way it would be said in the U.S. is "I still have 3 chromis'" To me, it's not right or wrong, just language. For some people it's difficult to accept the way others talk.  People in the other forum were cruel and uninformed to say those things about you. It seems like you are really trying to do good with your aquarium. We can communicate. We just need to take it slow. 
We don't really need to ask any more about the light, because we can say for sure that it isn't enough to grow much coral. Only the soft coral called mushrooms will grow with that light. But it is almost not enough light for them. The light that you might consider is a 30-40 Watt Power Compact (PC) Fluorescent light. You probably have 220 voltage electrical power in your country. Am I right? I do not know what sizes of PC lighting are offered for 220V.
The 2kg rock is about 5 lbs. That's not enough in my opinion. The fish need more LR to hide in and more LR would help your tank do better, but first we need to talk about circulation. 
The HOB filter is moving the water a little, but not enough. Can you get a powerhead? That's a pump that runs underwater. It needs to move about 700-1000 gals.(approximately 3000 liter - 4000 liter) of water per hour. Two smaller 500 gph (gals. per hour) powerheads is better than one 1000 gph powerhead. More water movement will also help increase pH because the water is able to expel carbon dioxide (CO2) faster. More about CO2 in another paragraph below. From what you said, I'm thinking (or here I could also say "I think" or "I assume") that you have a hang on the back (HOB) mechanical filter. That's a good thing for a 16 gal.(~60l) tank. Do you have access to activated carbon? It would be very good right now to use activated carbon. It kind of takes the place of a skimmer and big water changes. During the first month, more frequent water changes are necessary. Now you can cut back to 10% monthly with no bad effects if you use activated carbon as described below. But always remember that large water changes can save a suddenly distressd tank.
You added too many fish, too soon for the filtration capacity. That's why they died  . It wasn't the crushed coral, it was the new tank. How deep is the crushed coral on the bottom? It should be at least 2 inches or about 5cm. Three to four inches would be better, IMO. The term Live Sand (LS) simply says that there are bacteria and tiny organisms growing in and on the particles of substrate; your crushed coral.
Aragonite is the mineral we want the LS substrate and the LR to be made of. Aragonite helps keep pH and Alkalinity where they're supposed to be. This reminds me to tell you to get a marine aquarium book and read it. Be careful though, any book older than about 10 years may have too much misinformation. This hobby is improving rapidly.
I don't know what geoliquid is, but for a new tank, supplements are usually not needed and are usually harmful rather than helpful. It's possible for an uneeded or overdosed additive to push pH down, requiring bufffer to raise it. Also all the fish you had and the feeding required for them was pushing your pH down. Half of the bacteria that are eating the organic material (fish waste) in the water and substrate require oxygen to live. Those bacteria give off carbon dioxide (CO2) as do the fish and other little animals starting to grow from the LR and in the LS. When there is a lot of CO2 being given off, it pushes pH down. If you can get some activated carbon, about 1/2 cup in a mesh bag, and place it in the HOB filter, that would clean the water of organic material. Cleaning the filter and replacing the carbon weekly should really help. After another month the carbon can be replaced monthly and the filter cleaned only when it's getting dirty. I've said a lot here, probably too much all at once, but let's keep the discussion going. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: nottinainthere
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 8:30am
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now back to the fishes the crushed corals are like 1 inch or a little lesser . and yeah i got a book. it's called your first marine aquarium. by barrons i kinda like books from barron as they are very brief yet holds strong points , not long and boring and they got lots of colourful pictures. also i bought the previous guinea pig book from them so i kinda trust them. i'm just afraid to get crap books with irrelevent topics. so what i gotta get is some activated carbon and powerhead, but is the activated carbon in a form of liquid and is the powerhead expensive. as im still a student , my budget is quite tight again i gotta say thanks for replying all my naive questions and not complaining for the tons of question i'm asking ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 2:13pm
Are you teasing us? I'm wondering if I look like a 
Did you mean that the crushed coral has a particle size of 1 inch or that it's 1 inch deep? Which of these pics does it look most like?  
The activated carbon is granules. Is there a pet store that you can go to and see activated carbon? The pumps are very necessary if you want to keep coral and marine fish healthy. A better light or natural sunlight will be necessary for you to grow coral. This hobby is expensive if you want to do it well. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 3:02pm
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This receives the award for World's Most Surprising Quote. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 4:54pm
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Its just a 25 gallon tank, it doesn't cost much nor does it take long to do. |
Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 5:01pm
I second the nomination and we should award the prize. The prize is a pair of hot glue end caps for flourescent light bulbs. hehe... |
Posted By: imaexpat2
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 7:43pm
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Wow, Mark...you left me with nothing to say. Expensive...yeah it is a bit of an expensive hobby, but for a 25 gallon or less...should be fairly reasonable. What gets expensive in when you get hooked and your collection grows and you start going to a bigger tank! Thanks when it started breaking my back Yeah I definitely think your right about the power if memory serves me right, been there a few times. If its not 220v then it 110 at 50 cycles. nottinainthere I agree with Mark, gotta boost that lighting a bit, add a little bit more live rock about 1/2 a kilo or slightly more per a gallon(1 gallon is about equal to roughly 4 liters) I'd say. The carbon sounds like a good move as I think it would be tough to get a skimmer that small (I could be wrong but then again the smallest tank I have is 40 gallons - never tried a "Nano Reef"). I think the biggest mistake you made was you got some bad advice and you added way too many fish way to quick. With the info Mark provided you, you should be well on your way to a nice tank in a couple of months. This is a pretty intense hobby and there is a lot of info that can be confusing at times. I have been doing this a while as I am sure everyone here has and I am still learning something new almost daily! Just hang in there and good luck getting everything up and running good. ------------- 300 gal. Frag System 300 gal. Live Rock Vat 240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 75 gal. Softies only Tank 65 gal. LPS/Softies 24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 9:40pm
Oh come on you guys, you're me. I was kinda trying to with him when he said he's a student and because his tank needs so many improvements  , and because he has a lot to learn.  and because he was treated so  by the ordinary forums, and because he wants to do it right and because I  his efforts to get the right information  and because he lives so far away that he can't come to our meetings  and because if he did come he would get a big  from all us friendly WMAS people!------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcus
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 9:59pm
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Okay, that is worse than trying to read abbreviations. What about the endcaps? Only a few people still have a pair of the patented Mark P. endcaps. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2004 at 11:12pm
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Spuma and I just made 12 of them! Maybe a pic would be appropriate.
But I need to make a correction. It's aquarium silicone, not hot glue. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: nottinainthere
Date Posted: February 10 2004 at 1:59am
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ok cool so it's a deep inch of crushed corals and it looks more like the second one the sand are really small and. i got a protein skimmer if i missed out saying that i should be getting the stuff during the weekends. but this trip when i go should i get all of the above mentioned or just a little ? ------------- would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 11 2004 at 9:32am
1) The second one is not usually called crushed coral simply because it does not have the appearance of broken pieces of coral. One inch of either size substrate is not enough. It should be 2-4 inches deep, front to back, to do the job of filtration the way it should be done. Try to find a little LS to innoculate and add variety to the organisms to the substrate. 2)Is the PS working? The carbon isn't as important if the skimmer is working. 3)More substrate and LS is the most important thing you need. More LR is advisable, but the pumps are needed to help the LR do well. If you can afford it, get the power compact lights, blue/pink looks and does best, IMO, but if that's not available, blue/white. Look for a retrofit pc lighting kit to fit the hood (take the hood with you to the store, to see if the kit will work!). btw - The book you said you have is nice but too brief. I know those books. If you really want to do it right get a better book. The better ones that discuss LS & LR filtration are usually US$30-60 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 12 2004 at 11:42am
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I'll give Mark the award on this one for Most Overuse of Emoticons. I agree with Marcus, it took a while to read. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 12 2004 at 12:02pm
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------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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