what�s your pH?
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Topic: what�s your pH?
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Subject: what�s your pH?
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 4:53pm
Do you know how low  and how high  your pH goes?
JFinch has brought up a very good topic because of something he found in a book about Ocean Chemistry. IMO their pH swing range of 8.2 - 8.9 is too high. I've seen closed systems where it can get down to 7.7 but in the same system it cannot rise to 8.9. A more viable high number in a swinging system is 8.4, though I have heard of 8.6. Before I started using the groundbreaking(that was 1996) RDP Refugia the pH in my 75 gal went from 7.9 at 5AM and topped off at 8.3 by late morning. That was too wide of a range and it caused ich on damsels and Yellow Tangs died within two weeks, that is until I set up the RDP Refugia. Almost immediately it hovered between a 5AM reading of 8.1 and then rising to 8.3 as I recall  .
This is a very important part of aquarium maintenance that I believe every hobbyist should know. There are other options for raising nightime pH other than a RDP refugia. Let's discuss... What is your pH at about 5AM and how does it increase through the day  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Replies:
Posted By: Suzy
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 4:58pm
| I still waiting for my new pH probe! I'll join this later! |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 5:12pm
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Mine is 8.1 with RDP and late morning 8.3 ------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 5:54pm
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I'm kinda glad you brought this up. I'm right in the middle of a little "experiment" on my tank. Since alkalinity is closely tied to pH and pH swings, it would be informative if you also report your alkalinity. Currently my pH is 8.0 at morning and 8.2 at evening with an alkalinity of 3.0 meq/l (8.4 dKH) with my refugium lights on the same cycle as my main lights. It's been set up this way since December. I've been watching my pH every morning and evening since getting a pH meter (thanks DutchDude). Beginning tomorrow I'll be switching to a RDP mode and leave it for a month. Then I plan to switch back to a natural cycle for a month or so. Monitoring pH while doing this. I'll also be increasing my alkalinity up to 4 meq/l (11.2 dKH) in the next week. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: rstruhs
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 6:09pm
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Thanks Mark! Now I want/need a pH probe and an alkalinity meter? This ought to be a good and informative topic though! ------------- Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West. (801) 282-2744 75 gallon reef 55 gallon reef 55 gallon FOWLR 20 gallon FOWLR |
I just barely get caught up dollar wise to see what I want/need and you bring up something else!Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 6:18pm
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rstruhs, imo a pH meter is a want, but an alkalinity kit (not meter) is a need. Keep your alkalinity steady (very easy to do) and most common problems dissapear. You can periodically measure pH using a test kit. Now back to the pH discussion... ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 6:21pm
I did all my testing with those dumb kits. If you want to get exact with a dumb kit, go test the water of someone with a fancy probe! Also bring some of your water and test it with their probe! That's how I would calibrate my dumb kit ...if I still did testing, ...which I don't anymore  .
BTW, I found that almost as soon as the first light of dawn begins to appear, the algae resumes normal photosythesis and the pH starts to rise, so it's important to test while it's still dark. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 19 2004 at 8:56pm
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My pH stays between 6.0 and 10.0. I think. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 8:29am
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I don't want this thread to end, so I'll update my early results. Here's a table showing my pH swings:
pH measured at 6am and 9pm. Clearly the RDP cycle has resulted in a decrease in my pH cycle. The unexpected (at least to me) result was that it only pinched down on the upper end of the scale. I can't explain that... Tonight I'll start moving my alkalinity back up to where I like to keep it (4 meq/l). I'll update as I go. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 3:34pm
 7.9 - 8.1 alk around 11dKH. Fuge lighting is 24/7 along witha ca reactor & kalk drip 24/7.
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Posted By: Flaz
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 6:20pm
| 7.9 to 8.2 |
Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 7:54pm
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. |
Posted By: Danny Lueck
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 10:57pm
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8.3 8.6
I was worried 8.6 was high ...I turned off my Calc reactor to try to bring ph down. alk is around 11.3 cal around 390 whish i could bring that up 
In your opinon leaving reactor on all night is that bad ........ how high of a PH is dangerous????? ------------- "Ask not what your REEF TANK can do for you!!" [email protected] |
Posted By: rstruhs
Date Posted: February 23 2004 at 11:17pm
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7.8 to 8.0 pH with RDP (These are readings at 9 p.m.), 1.022 salinity, 72 to 76 degrees Farenheit, 7.2 to 9.0 dKH, Ca ranges from 380 to 440
------------- Rodney, Sandra, Jeffery, and Laura Struhs South Jordan, Utah 98th South & 40th West. (801) 282-2744 75 gallon reef 55 gallon reef 55 gallon FOWLR 20 gallon FOWLR |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 7:31am
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Danny, if you want your calcium higher you should add Turbo Calcium. If your pH is really that high adding more calcium will most likely drive your alkalinity down. When was the last time you calibrated your pH meter? I don't think it's common to have high pH problems when using a reactor. What Travis is experiencing is more common. Are you using any other additives (buffers, b-ionic, ect)? If you haven't calibrated it lately, I'd suggest you do. Need any buffer solutions? I would personally be concerned with a pH above 8.5, but how is your tank reacting to it? The higher the pH the harder it is to keep your calcium and alkalinity levels up. You get more non-coral growth deposition of CaCO3 then at a lower pH. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Danny Lueck
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 8:17am
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Well thanks for the info.....
My tank seems ok So i should leave reactor on add turbo cal. to rise my cal. and in turn lower my alk. which will stablize my PH lol is this right?????
I calibrated about 1 1/2 weeks ago ------------- "Ask not what your REEF TANK can do for you!!" [email protected] |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 8:36am
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So i should leave reactor on add turbo cal. I don't know As a general rule of thumb: use turbo calcium or some other CaCl2 product to make changes to calcium levels and use your reactor to maintain (and make changes to) your alkalnity. What's the pH of the reactor effluent? How many drops/min? ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 3:25pm
| So what would be the low number that would be the start of concern? I've read that a PH of 7.7 in a reactor will start to melt the media. Would our corals start to melt at 7.7 in the tank? |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 4:24pm
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No but 7.7 is pretty low for a reef. IMO it should have a diurnal (night to day) variance from 8.1 to 8.4 but can be different if coral growth seems okay.
I am worried about rstruhs pH reading. That's too low for any tank at 9PM. When he and I talked recently it appears the flow through the RDP is very low which is not taking advantage of the RDP. But at 9PM the RDP is dark, so that leads us to look for other problems. In my experience, a tank that is overfed/overstocked and undercirculated (and sometimes underilluminated), will show the kind of problems that Rstruhs is experiencing. I'm not sure which of these conditions exist but if we had an ORP meter that tank would probably be very low, indicating the need for action. I'm wondering if Rodney would mind if I stopped by tomorrow. I might be able to visit and maybe he would like to come with me to visit Gary Kemp and his 250 with a school of Tangs. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 6:17pm
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Below 7.8 I'd start to worry a bit. As near as I can figure aragonite will start to dissolve around 7.5 (or so) in a tank with normal alkalinity and calcium (3 meq/l and 370 ppm Ca). It sounds like you're doing everything I might suggest... kalk, good circ, RDP, ect. What you can do if your pH is chronicly low like that is more safely keep your alkalinity at very high levels. I would think you could shoot for 5 meq/l or higher ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
.Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 7:18pm
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14dKH It was up at 15.?? and my PH was running 8.0-8.2 but I backed off because the calcium wasn't keeping up. I may try to bring it back up slowly and see what happens.
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I would like that. Puts calcium around 460 
. Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: February 24 2004 at 7:36pm
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Don't get too caught up in the thought that calcium and alkalinity need to be "balanced back to 2.5 meq/l and 410 ppm Ca", imo. There's no "chemical" reason to do that. Just keep your calcium above 400 and you'll be fine. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 6:10am
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Some tanks do very well with Ca between 350-400. IMO, it isn't just the Ca figure that makes the coral grow or the aquarium healthy. It's having all parameters within a reasonable range and then using your own (and others) observation to determine whether the organisms are healthy.
Admittedly, I've been at this a long time so I can spot healthy vs. unhealthy tanks from a distance. It takes time and patience and looking at a lot of other systems... but that's why y'all are here on the message board and in the WMAS, right...! So that you can learn to observe and improve the health of your aquarium. For the health of your aquarium, please take advantage of your neighbor hobbyist friends around you by looking at their aquariums, asking questions and checking out how they do things. Then go back home and make improvements to your own system. Viewing others tanks saves a lot of time, trouble, and wasted effort in re-inventing the wheel...and you make new friends too.
The WMAS membership list is available electronically now (finally  ). It's available to any WMAS member that wants to know who their neighboring fish friends are. Just email me to request a copy.
Mark mailto:[email protected] - [email protected] ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Travis
Date Posted: February 25 2004 at 7:38am
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I'm sure I'm not the only one, but to be real honest Mark I'm not yet able to determine if a sps (or any other) corals are healthy or not unless there are visable signs. I have to rely on readings and be pro-active to assure the health of my tank mates. Jon, I had it stuck in my head that a balance needed to be maintained... I see your point though. Thanks for the tip |