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Orange Algae?!?!?!

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Forum Name: SPS
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2589
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Topic: Orange Algae?!?!?!
Posted By: improdigal
Subject: Orange Algae?!?!?!
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 5:15pm

Ok, I've had a little brown algae, a couple spots of red popped up on and off recently, and I've always had Purple. But somewhere between going to work and coming home I have had a  bunch of ORANGE?!?! Algae growing on various previously bare spots of LR.

The tank WAS established, I bought if from the guy: lr, sand, fish, water and all. Then I had a major crisis and had to change out half the water. Now it appears to be going through cycles.

Should I be worried?



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Patrick



Replies:
Posted By: reptoreef
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 6:40pm

Looks a lot like diatoms(brown algae)... how new is your tank? This is a common algae noticed during some cycles(usually in new tanks). List all your water test results and we may be of more help, though.

     Jason



Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 20 2004 at 6:59pm

I already had some brown algae in patches and it was a much darker brown. It may be my lighting but this really does come across as orange in real life (even more than the pics show).

I tested my water and everything is within normal params except the nitrates which have always been area the 100 range (I know, I'm working on that issue as well). Basically the water tests the same as it has for the last 3 months.

OH, 1 difference, 2 days ago I put in a quart of rotifers and green water, could this just be a different algae picked up from that? I also cleaned off my top glass which increased the light in the tank slightly.



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Patrick


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 7:33am
The pics make me think that overfeeding is causing some trouble. Try stopping the feeding for two days and then feed half as much for a while and see what happens. I have been extemely busy lately. I'll come visit and bring your snails as soon as I have time.

An additional thought is that it needs macroalgae. Is there any currently growing in the tank?

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Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 8:23am

There is some macro algae in the tank, but nothing substantial. My tangs appear to be grazing on any new growth.

I do feed my fish a variety of food and fairly often, but only as much as they will eat immediately (10-20 seconds).

I had done it that way becuase if I fed them a 'normal' serving, half of it goes in my overflow before they eat it. So I only feed them as much as they will clear the second it hits the surface.

I feed them three small servings daily:
- Flakes in the morning
- Alternate Blood Worms or Brine Shrimp at noon
- Rotate various frozen cubes at night

If I'm only feeding them as much as they can eat immediately, would that cause overfeeding issues? My fish act like I'm starving them when they do get fed.

BTW, I won't need many snails, probably need crabs more. Of course, that was one of the things you were going to help me figure out.



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Patrick


Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 9:06am
Originally posted by improdigal improdigal wrote:

I feed them three small servings daily:
- Flakes in the morning
- Alternate Blood Worms or Brine Shrimp at noon
- Rotate various frozen cubes at night

WOW!

Adam



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Come to a meeting, they�re fun!


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 10:20am

Wow as in 'too much' or Wow, I'm obsessive compulsive?

I brought this practice over from my Fresh water tanks. I found rotating their diet gave them much brighter colors and shinier scales overall.



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Patrick


Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 10:34am

I think we will all agree that rotating their diet is the best practice.

I think Adam's WOW response was due to the amount of food being feed.



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Jake Pehrson

Murray

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Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 10:54am
Ok, what would be standard then. I have a 150 gallon tank with around 10 2"-5" fish. They act like they are starving all the time with what I feed them already.

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Patrick


Posted By: Jared Wood
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:03pm
I think that most reef fish act like that all the time.  They have a tendancy to push food through their bodies as fast and as much as they are fed.

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In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth ... then He let it cycle.

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Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:08pm

I guess my next question would be, can I overfeed them rotifers??? I'm trying to build up my 'bug-base' so I added a whole quart of them to my tank a couple days ago.

The aquarium told me that might cause an Algae bloom, but I need one at this point, I can't get algae to grow faster than it is eaten by my sea urchin (see nitrate problem above.



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Patrick


Posted By: reptoreef
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:10pm
Here's my general practice... I feed 3 x's per week. It's a 55 gl tank with 7 fish. On Mon, Wed, and Sat, I feed 2 tsp of A homemade fish mush(clams, oysters, crawdad tail, sushi nori, brine shrimp, and vitamins) and a small pinch of Cyclop-eeze... For tangs, you can leave a clip of algae(commercial, sushi, microalgae) on the days not feeding. On Sun, I try to stir the top 1/4 - 1/2 inch of the sandbed to get any detritus that's caught back into the water column and feeds the filter feeders at the same time. Marine fish (most) generally have a much slower metabolizm than FW fish.

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www.captivereefing.com


Posted By: Connie
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:11pm
1 have a 120 with 11 small reef chromis & 1 hawk fish, 1 bartlett anth., i lr. purple tang, 1 royal gramma, 1 phsudochromis, 2 clowns, 1 carpenters wrasse. 2 stars and 4 shrimp..... I feed one cube every other day... They act like they have never seen food before but I really think feeding 1/4 of what you are and everyother day would help.....


Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:17pm

Although feeding your fish as much as you are is probably not hurting them, it directly correlates with you nitrate problem.

I would stop feeding altogether for a couple of days and then start feeding them a little each day.

I would also recommend a large water change ASAP to take care of the immediate nitrate problem.

What types of filtration do you have on your aquarium?  How much live rock?  What type of sand bed and how deep is it? etc.



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Jake Pehrson

Murray

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http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :)


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 12:23pm

I have a sump system under the tank (40gallon) with the skimmer/heater/bioballs in the sump. I'm planning to setup a refugium with my old 25 gallon tank as soon as I can move out the FW fish in it and get someone over to help me set it up.

In the tank itself I have about 100lbs of LR, 4' crushed coral substrate.



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Patrick


Posted By: reptoreef
Date Posted: May 21 2004 at 6:41pm

Bio balls could be a major part of your problem... pure nitrate factories. IMO, slowly remove the balls(20% per week) until until gone.

     Jason



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www.captivereefing.com


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 7:33am

I'm going to cut back my feedings to a small serving once/day and see how that helps.

What purpose were the bioballs supposed to serve (ie. will I have other problems when I remove them) and why do they cause a nitrate buildup?



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Patrick


Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 9:31am

My quick take.  The "wow" was for both regularity and quantity.  I would say that I am one of those people on the far side of feed your fish a ton.  I feed my feed about once per day when I first get them, but after a week or so, I go back to my regular feeding schedule.  Typically, I feed my tank about once every 3 days. 
Jake on the other hand is a "a hungry fish is a healthy fish" guy and he feeds his tank about once every 3 weeks. 

Your variety is great, and similar to mine (except my staple is the food we made at the meeting) but that is a lot of food to add to the tank.  Remember whatever goes in the fish, comes out on the other end.  That could be a big source of nutrients for your tank.

Adam



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Come to a meeting, they�re fun!


Posted By: KeoDog
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 9:39am
I would leave the bioballs in.  They do not produce nitrates, the excess food does. I have always used bioballs in both my tanks and I measure 1 and 0 in them.  Get some macro algae growing in a refugium and watch your nitrates drop.

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Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand


Posted By: reptoreef
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 10:15am

Bio balls are the area in which bacteria builds and where nitrites and ammonia, through chemical reaction, produce nitrates(IMO, the nitrate factory). I do agree that macro algae is an awesome ingredient to any sump. LR is also a great asset for filtration/denitrification. As well as a good skimmer. I don't intend to offend with my opinion, though. It just goes to show that there's no "one way" to have and maintain a successful captive reef.

     Jason



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www.captivereefing.com


Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 10:44am

Originally posted by improdigal improdigal wrote:

100lbs of LR, 4' crushed coral substrate.

Wow my tank isn't even 4 feet deep. (Sorry couldn't help myself.)

All this time I thought that Adam liked to feed his fish often.  I guess I'm right up there with Improdigal when it comes to feeding fish. I don't feed on a schedule he does, but I feed religiously everyday.  1 small cube of homemade fish food goo.  Some days I may add cyclopeez to that or later in the day feed golden pearls, brine shrimp or flake.  The extra does not get fed everyday, but probably 3 times a week or so.

I got the impression that Adam drops a little bit of something in the tank evertime he stops to look at it.  Then again, sometimes I get the impression that he doesn't stop to look at it all that often so maybe that stands to reason.



Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 11:22am

<<<<<<<< Feeds his fish 3 times a day with no problems. Good filteration is key to your feeding habits I feed my tank like crazy

but i also have a huge skimmer and 100Gal sump/ref



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Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 2:15pm

hehe...thanks everyone for all the input. I think I'll cut back on feeding, add my refugium (I don't have one yet) and then go from there. Although I will miss feeding my fish all the time. They keep looking at me when I come in the room like "daddy, why don't you feed us anymore" It's only been 2 days and the nitrates appear to be going down already.



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Patrick


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 22 2004 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by wsinbad1 wsinbad1 wrote:

Originally posted by improdigal improdigal wrote:

100lbs of LR, 4' crushed coral substrate.

Wow my tank isn't even 4 feet deep. (Sorry couldn't help myself.)

Always gotta have a comedian in the crowd. hehe

(yea I caught that after I posted it, DOH!)



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Patrick


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 23 2004 at 1:21am
The way to look at it, IMO, is that a variety of algae in a sump is far better for filtration than bioballs.

There is no need to add a separate sump for a refugium, if you simply remove the bioballs and their compartment, if utilized, in order to replace them with algae and a white or plant growth light (not blue light). The brighter the light the better. We want algae to grow in the refugium before it has a chance to grow in the display tank.

A refugium does not need substrate, though most people take advantage of the space to add more of that most valuable of "filtration media", aragonite substrate. Be careful that sand, especially fine particle oolitic, is kept away from the inlets to pumps, either with a wall, baffles, or just distance. (A sponge barrier is counterproductive to the purposes of a refugium, part of which is to provide bugs and bug babies as food to the display tank.)

Setting the refugium lighting to a reverse daylight photosynthesis cycle (RDP or just RD) has IMO, along with the Refugium itself, been found to be very beneficial to overall tank health. There is an article about this in the Sea Star Online, June 2002 issue.

To my understanding it appears that, from the standpoint of filtration, bioballs only handle part of the job. They are well aerated which allows ammonia to be converted to nitrite and nitrite to be converted to nitrate. But their function ends there. At this point, lower oxygen areas are needed as home to the appropriate bacteria that convert nitrate to Nitrogen and Oxygen (Bacteria in lower oxygen environments still need oxygen. They get their oxygen atoms from the nitrate molecule!)

The advantage of LS and LR is that these "media" do the whole job, so why bother with bioballs.

my 2 cents

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 2:02pm

My only question would be, is there any reason NOT to have both the bio-balls, ls, lr, and the refugium. Is there such a thing as over-filtration? The reason I ask is that the way my current sump system is setup, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to convert it to have sand and algae. So I'll either have to leave the bioball space empty or leave em there. Either way I have to add my refugium to the side or replace the whole sump system.

I was going to hook my refugium up to the existing sump, rather than add another. The refugium is going to be set up a little higher than the sump under the tank. I'll have a powerhead move the water from the existing sump to the refugium and then have just a syphon tube take it back to the sump and out to the original tank.



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Patrick


Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 3:18pm

My only question would be, is there any reason NOT to have both the bio-balls, ls, lr, and the refugium.

That is a topic that has been discussed often.  There are scientifically debatable reasons to remove them.  And there are many people who can testify to the fact that their nitrates dropped after removing the bio-balls.  But right now they could be providing a good portion of your nitrification.  So if you remove them do it slowly (a few balls per week or something like that).  If you don't feel comfortable removing the balls, then install the refugium and get it going.  If the nitrates fall then you're in fat city.  If the nitrates are still high then reconsider the use of the balls.  Just my opinions.

Alternatively, some people have claimed quick denitrification success by simply completely submerging the bio-balls (or bio-wheel).



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Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...



Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 24 2004 at 8:22pm
I agree with Jon.

-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: improdigal
Date Posted: May 25 2004 at 9:33am
Originally posted by jfinch jfinch wrote:

Alternatively, some people have claimed quick denitrification success by simply completely submerging the bio-balls (or bio-wheel).

Well my bio balls are almost completely submerged all the time anyway. So maybe I was using them wrong anyway ;-) HA HA HA



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Patrick


Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: May 25 2004 at 12:14pm

When I use bioballs I use them in a "tower" of sorts where water cascades down over them keeping them wet all the time but not submerged.  Similar idea to the biowheel.  It's a very aerobic environment where nitrification reins king.  You can go to Marine Aquatics to see a MONSTER version of what I'm talking about.



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Jon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing...




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