Hello, My name is Jessica.  I am new here, but just need some info or advice on the Toadstool leather coral.

I purchased for a great deal & it seems to be doing ok, but when I saw it in the tank I purchased it was out & open. Since I have had it, it has only opened partially. i also noticed it did retract & shed the mucous layer ( I guess is normal) But does anyone have any ideas on how I can get it to open completely? ( all levels are fine in the tank & consistent)

:) Any help or advice would be appreciated.

For the most part my leather coral likes to stay open the majority of the time.  However, if it is stressed in any way it will close until the irritant is taken care of.

How long have you had yours for?  How long has it stayed closed?

My coral has sometimes stayed closed for as long as 2 weeks.  So I would not be overly stressed.

Quote: Originally posted by jkelson on 11 March 2003

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      I have since moved my leather to a different position & he opened up almost all of the way. I guess they are picky about where they want to be. I unfortunately found out that I had two beautiful aiptaisa (haha) in my tank. I guess now i know why i got them for 3.00 a piece! But I luckily asked a marine aquarium store & he warned me of them. They were very hard to get out of my live rock though.   Thanks for the advice on the leather, this site is great!!  Jess.

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Who sold you aptaisa?  Did they ask if you had a reef?

Maybe I should post this in the for-sale forum, but I've got 5 or 6 aptaisa for anyone interested...I'll even pay you a buck or two if you can get 'em off the rock without removing the rock

Quote: Originally posted by pistonfister on 12 March 2003

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 Jess, how did you remove the aptaisa? If you dont get rid of them completely they will come back.

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let me give you another data point to evaluate (not recommended for the faight of heart :) )

I got aprox. 20 lbs of live rock that had many aptaisa (20-40...lost count).  When I transfered the rock from the orginal tank to mine I followed this procedure.

mixed a near saturated solution of KOH/water using KOH flake (from here at work).  This is a VERY caustic mixture, it will dissolve skin in very little time.  I put on my rubber gloves.  Sucked this mixture up into a sringe (with needle).  Grab a rock, search for aptaisa, inject aptaisa.  Every single one would then start to dissolve and release from the rock.  Then use the needle to pick them off the rock and into the garbage.  I then placed the rock in a 5 gallon bucket of salt water and shook vigorously.  Then out of that and into another bucket of salt water and shoot vigorously.  Then into my tank.  This method allowed me to remove the aptaisa without doing any real harm to the rest of the rock or it's inhabitants.  The two bucket rinse was to remove all the residual KOH solution.  This worked like a charm, no ill effects in the tank.  I just didn't find all the aptaisa in the move, some of the smaller ones excaped my attention and are now growing and multiplying .

I've actually used this method in the tank (with a slightly less concentrated KOH solution).  I do not recomment this.  The caustic solution causes a localized area of very high pH resulting in a small cloud of calcium carbonate precipitation.  This is a bad thing in a reef.

I got a pepperment shrimp, but he's worthless at aptaisa control. 

Maybe I've just got a lazy shrimp.  He's a pig when it comes to eating his cousins, little brine and big brother mysis .

Anyone have any ideas how to starve a shrimp?

About a year or so ago, we had a discussion at one of our club meetings on how to rid our tanks of these pesky critters (aiptasia).  As I recall there were several methods mentioned but the ones that seemed to make the most since were the natural methods. 

Peppermint shrimp as Suzy mentioned is one method.  A couple other methods mentioned are placing a coral close enough that it can reach out and sting the the aiptsia such as a (frogspawn).  Also just as important, do not place the coral so close that the aiptaisia can make contact with the coral while the coral is not extending out to the aiptasia.  Another method and was very highly recommended was putting a nudibranch in the tank. 

      Wow, I guess i need to watch for the aiptaisa to arise again. This is nasty stuff! We rec'd it from a new fish store in sandy, I am disappointed now. This stuff is nasty, I will be going out and getting a peppermint shrimp tomorrow. Also I heard aiptaisa can kill other things in the tank. They only kill by stinging (touching),,,right??  

By the way thanks for the prior info  Jess.

This thread has mutated to aptaisa control...

The other method I've heard about is getting a copper banded butterfly.  My tank is not big enough for a butterfly so I got the shrimp.  I'd like to know more about the nudibranch.  What else does he eat?

I've tryed injecting kalkwasser without much luck.  Anyone try that Stop Aptaisa stuff you can buy at the fish stores?  I've been tempted to try it, but at $16 a bottle and not knowing what its made of...I've been leary.

Quote: Originally posted by Jake Pehrson on 13 March 2003

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It is extremely difficult to get one peppermint to eat your Aiptasia.  I recommend adding .5-1 peppermint shrimp per gallon.  Sounds like a lot, but they will usually do the trick and they are cheaper than Berghia.

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 That's a lot of peppermint!

What's the odds of keeping peppermints with coral banded?

Suzy and all who are interested-I haven't kept a berghia nudibranch myself so I don't know first hand what they need to eat if the aiptasia is gone.  There was no mention of them being harmful to corals at the meeting that I heard the suggestion to use them.   However I do remember that it was Joe and Cindy Jones who highly recommended there use for getting rid of aitasia.

A person could  try the berghia nudibranch until he or she felt the aiptasia is gone then he or she could trade it for credit at a store or mention on the forum or something that the nudibranch is available for trade or sale.     

Suzy,

No they wouldn't.  Nudibranch's are incredibly beautiful slugs.  They are a fantastic specimen of what nature can create.  They greatly enhance your tank.  They die 2 weeks later. 

I wouldn't recommend them, unless you have lots of coral and macro algae for them to eat.  However, the Berghia do work great, and Jake has had marvelous success with them.  Once your aiptasia are gone, simply give them to your friends.  But stay clear of the other nudibranchs (I know they are tempting). 

Adam

Adam and everyone,

It pains me to hear of people like Jessica doing such damage to their tanks (live rock), because they follow the advice of the pet store.

People could be coming here with their problems and get some proper help.

Can we make it a priority to do a WMAS Reef-Keepers Guide. This would be a topical guide telling people about such things as Aptasia, dsb, aragonite, lighting and all the things that have been discussed on this forum. This could be posted on the website and made available to everyone.

As I think about it, we might even do a sheet like the CaribSea reference sheet which could be distributed to the pet stores for their own sales people to read, to learn from and to distribute. This could become a valuable piece of paper (booklet?) that stores would find themselves giving out to their customers, especially beginners. The stores might even request more when they run out!

Lately I have been handing out the business cards at the LFS's and roughly half of the people I contact are already familiar with the club through the website. Let's get to the other half!

Mark

    Mark, I think your idea is brilliant! I guess i lucked out in submitting this question as far as my tank is concerned. I now post a forum when I have a question. I will be coming to the meeting in april (unfortunately missed march) but I also tell everyone I know including pet stores about this club & how informative it has been for me. This web site will saves people $$ as well.  By the way......Reg my toadstool...happy to say two days ago I rearranged my rock & placed him where he is mid tank & can have shade when he wants. it came out in full by the next night--<24hrs later!!! It is now doing very well!!                Thanks Guys  

Mark - awesome idea! I'm not sure the LFS would agree though. For many, selling snake oil seems to be their bread and butter. I don't want to start a flaming thread about LFS, but I had one owner try to sell me a can of Black Powder recenty. (no offense to you Marc Weiss fans) he said all the corals would open wider and the powder would improve coloration. He went so far as to assure me that coral frags would attach quicker as a result of this magic in a jar! I had been going to his store for a long time. He knows me, he knows what I normally buy, he knows I've had some experience yet he trys to sell me 4oz of wonder powder (for $15) to solve all my problems. Anyway, (stepping down off my soapbox) just my $.02 about LFS helping us save money.

I think you're being a little harsh re: LFS.  I'd bet that all, if not most, of the fish stores that carry a good stock of marine/reef animals are run by avid hobbyests (I can't spell for s*$%!).  Just 'cause they give you a sells pitch on the newest gadget, doesn't mean they (the owners) are just trying to make a buck.  Give 'em the benefit of the doubt, maybe they believe that blackpowder, coral vital, combisan, aptaisa, whatever is the best thing since sliced bread.  There are some fish stores that really are clueless when it comes to reefs, but I find them the exception not the rule (IMO).  Now I may not agree with everthing a fish store salesman might say but I wouldn't invalidate their experience just 'cause they might make a few $$ from the potential sale.  It's really no different then here on this list...there's probably 50 successful reefkeepers here with 50 different opinions on how/why they're successful.

jkelson, I'd still be interested in who sold you aptaisa for a reef tank.  That is someone who needs a pamplet!

Quote: Originally posted by Jake Pehrson on 18 March 2003

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FYI - Berghia Verrucicornis are specialized eaters, eating only Aiptasia.  After the Aiptasia is a gone it will be impossible to keep them alive.

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Are berghia scarce/unsustainable?  How expensive are they?  It's gotta be cheaper then 75 pepperment shrimp.  I kinda like the idea of passing one around, kind of a club mascot :).

On the other hand, I think there is a tendency to overreact to aptaisa, some worms, ect.  I kill 'em when I can, but I wouldn't pull my rocks out to kill a few aptaisa.  It would have to be a plague of biblical proportions.

That's right Jon. The voice of reason prevails! Most tanks sustain a few Aiptasia and the little buggers never go any further than that.

Once again, good message Mark!

Why are people trying to get rid of Aiptasia?  I have a few in my tank, and they look great.  Just because someone tells you they are bad, doesn't mean they are.  Our club is notorious for giving people bad information.  I can understand not wanting them to take over your tank, but I don't mind seeing a few of them around. 

Adam

Obviously Mark and Adam have never had an Aiptasia problem.  It is true that many times Aiptasia will not get out of control and is not a pest to many people, but those who have gone through having an Aiptasia problem never want to have it again and will do anything to avoid it.  Aiptasia is one of the hardest pests in the reef to control.

Adam,

Don't you think that this "Our club is notorious for giving people bad information.  I can understand not wanting them to take over your tank, but I don't mind seeing a few of them around." was a little harsh, coming from the President. :(  Maybe a better choice of words would be appropriate.  IMO Aiptasia are very hard to controll, that is why I have two Pepermint shrimp in my tank at all times.

John Fletcher "Reefaquarist"

I love this message board. It's so fun to be having this kind of exchange all through the month and not just at meetings. I'm an addict, I admit it.

Seems to me that when I did my stint as Pres. it was always unnerving to hear someone at an LFS say something about hearing a crazy WMAS member saying some ridiculous thing. As much as I wanted the club to have credibility, I was then, and still am, guilty of putting forth my own silly opinions. But it sure is fun!!!

John,

Yes, a little harsh.  But I'm also pointing the finger at myself.  We (including me) tend to think we know what we are doing.  So, we give people advice and often don't promote the idea of letting them try something new their own way. 

Obviously the club does the best it can to help people, but even as a president I have to admit that somethings are questionable.  Especially regarding our speakers and presentations. 

(sorry for the long message here) My orginial point was an effort to prevent people from over reacting when they see an aiptasia.  It isn't always a bad thing.  

Anyway, my apologies for any bad feelings regarding that comment. 

Adam  

I also don't like to over react infact I think I tend to under react but that's niether here nor there.

I noticed  some aiptasia in my tank some time ago I remained in observe mode and did nothing to rid them.  I think they came in peace.  I saw no harm done and I haven't seen them since.

I also understand that they can reproduce and become a problem.  Members on this forum have teamed together and come up with some really good suggestions. 

Adam, note taken.  Everyone has their own oppion, but wording is everything, no appology necessary.

John Fletcher "ReefAquarist"