Shayne's 90 Build
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41158
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Topic: Shayne's 90 Build
Posted By: Shayne
Subject: Shayne's 90 Build
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 1:48pm
Well, I guess this will end up being my build thread.  I just picked up my new 90 G glass tank today. I know I said I was going to go with used equipment but I'm really picky about some stuff. I decided to go with a new tank because it's the main focus of everyone who's going to see it, and I wanted it to be clean and flawless. I've got a few routs I can take with my stand and they all fall well within my planned budget. Now I just need to start piecing together all of my other equipment. I plan to buy used as much as possible. Here is a list of things I'm going to start looking for: RO/DI unit, Utah Oolitic sand, rock, lights (preferably 48" T-5 4 or 6 bulb), skimmer (eventually), pump, heater, power-heads, and test equipment. Feel free to PM me if you have any of these items for sale. I plan to build my own sump. Ok, back to the show. Here's the tank. (Pardon the crappy cellphone pic.)  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Replies:
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 1:59pm
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Shayne, Awesome choice on the tank! What brand is it?
If you want to save money to put towards lighting, you can probably skip out on the RO/DI unit for now. Aquatica has free RO water, which should be pretty close to your place. that way whenever you do a water change, you could take 3 5 gallon containers with you and just fill up. Just my two cents anyways, if you make your way out to Orem once a week.
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Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 2:03pm
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Thanks! It's an Aqueon. Dang, that would have been a great way to go but I almost never go to Orem (25-30 min away). I'm actually closer to Salt Lake which is where I work. |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:15pm
Ok, here come the questions.  I need 2 bulkheads. One hole is 1 1/2" and the other is 1 3/4". Where is the best place to pick them up (Home Depot, LFS, Sprinkler World)? Should I go with threaded or slip? Does anyone have a link to some good plumbing instructions? I have the general idea but diagrams and pictures really help me. Also, I'm assuming that my 2 bulkheads in my overflow should be used for my primary drain and emergency (overflow protection) drain. Do most people plumb the return to come up the outside (back) of the tank? Also, should I use the larger hole (bulkhead) as the primary drain? Thanks in advance!  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:32pm
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Grats on the tank! My returns come up in the overflow and t off for 2 outlets. Are you going to do a durso stand pipe? Most lfs carry bulkheads, Have never seen them at hd. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:36pm
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You don't have an emergency drain? I was thinking about going with the Hofer method stand. Having my system be quiet is a big priority. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:39pm
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I had this crazy idea of running the return pipe inside the emergency overflow pipe. I'm not sure it would work though. Probably too little space.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:39pm
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No I don't have one. I don't even know why you would need 1. Duroso is quiet IMO ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:41pm
In case your primary drain gets clogged but your pump keeps running. Doesn't that ever happen? ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
bugzme wrote:Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:44pm
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Hasn't happened to me in 6 yrs. So I would say no. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 3:56pm
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Are Durso's self-priming? IE: Something interrupts the water-flow so it no longer pulls water but then the interruption is removed (water level rises) and it starts flowing again on its own.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 4:29pm
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Exactly
------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 4:34pm
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Any reason you prefer Durso over Hofer? I notice most people use Durso but the Hofer sounded interesting. The Durso seems easier to build though (and possibly less likely to clog up).
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 4:41pm
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I don't know what hofer is. I would make the larger hole to feed the sump with a valve underneath and the smaller my return. My tank has 2 durso's and it it very quiet. burps sometimes!! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 4:53pm
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Ah! So you are running 2 drain pipes. Obviously yours are both being used as primaries but if one clogs up the other can keep the tank from overflowing (or at least slow it down). Here is a link to the Hofer design: http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/ - http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/ ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 22 2010 at 6:00pm
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I have never had either clog up ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 12:21pm
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Does anyone else have any opinion on how I should use my bulkheads? I've
seen a lot of builds that incorporate an emergency or secondary drain. I
think I could even drill out a 3rd hole in my overflow (never drilled
glass before) but I don't know if that's a good idea. (Jeff, I really appreciate your advice. I just want to see if there is anyone else out there with an opinion before I go with what you've told me. Thanks!)  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 12:38pm
NP I surely don't know everything!  ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: fishoutawater
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 12:52pm
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Using a Herbie style with a primary drain allows your overflow to run silently, not quietly, and no burps. It has to have a secondary drain just in case something slows the flow in the primary. It also eliminates bubbles in the sump because it doesn't suck any air with it. It's easy to drill a couple holes in the back of the tank and put some loc-line in for your returns and keep both primary and secondary drains in the overflow. ------------- Some day, when I grow up,... |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 1:13pm
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If I drilled the tank I would do it for a closed loop! I haven't done any research on the subject though. seems to me if you already have a supply and return why use them both for drains. Why spend money when you don't have to? Sorry but it doesn't make sense to me ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 1:26pm
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Are you talking about the method where you create a siphon but have the second drain as a backup?
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 6:26pm
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Durso's are a great drain and will run pretty much silently if done right and you can cram a ton of flow throw them. Another option is the HGB or Hofer Gurgle Buster, I run this on my frag tank and my 180. They are quiet but can be a bit finicky of you adjust flow after you have set them. Other than that they are fairly quiet. Either way they both work. Let me know if you need help with either and I'd be happy to answer any questions you have on building them. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 7:10pm
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I like the idea of the Hofer but it seems like it would be a good candidate for clogging up. I'm assuming the Durso's are a lot more reliable since they don't have any tight areas and anything that got into them should be able to make it to the other end. Either way I'm kind of stuck in a dilemma. I can't decide whether to have an emergency overflow or not. I'm kind of (ok, really) nervous about large spills but I guess not many people have had a problem with drains plugging up (IE: Bugzme). Maybe I'm worrying about nothing? So here's where I'm at. My first option is to go with the Durso, since it is less likely to clog, and I could use the second bulkhead for the return with no emergency drain. My second option is to have the primary and emergency in the overflow and run the return on the outside of the tank and over the back. (I guess that kind of offsets the point of having an overflow though.) My third option would be to drill a third hole/bulkhead and then I could have a primary, and emergency drain, plus the return all running through my overflow. I've never drilled glass before though.  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 7:24pm
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Durso will likely never clog. I have never ran an emergency drain and have never seen a real reason to unless you are running the herbie method which in itself is a huge flood risk. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: fishoutawater
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 7:28pm
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How is running a Herbie a flood risk? I will agree that 99% of our tanks will never have an issue with clogging with a durso, but quiet is not silent, and having a backup stand pipe gives peace of mind. How could it not be safer than a durso? Also, a 1" durso will not run close to what a 1" Herbie will do. ------------- Some day, when I grow up,... |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 7:51pm
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I guess I could just start with a Durso and run the return through the
overflow. If I don't like it I can think about changing it to a Hofer
(not to be mistaken for Herbie, iirc).
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 8:05pm
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You should do a poll and see how many people use each drain. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: fishoutawater
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 10:29pm
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A poll for people who have used both would be more helpful. Everyone I know of who has used one likes it better than a durso. ------------- Some day, when I grow up,... |
Posted By: Ricordia
Date Posted: May 23 2010 at 11:04pm
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I still haven't seen a good explanation of what a Herbie overflow does and how to set one up. Anyone have a good link? ------------- Rich Allen Murray, UT 150g Leemar Starfire reef tank with a 40g sump 75g planted freshwater with tetras |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 12:36am
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Hofer Gurgle Buster: http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/ - http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/ Herbie: The Herbie design is actually a combination of designs. Two standpipes are required. One of them is typically a Durso or Stockman; this is the pipe that dictates the water level in the overflow chamber just as it would in a single stand pipe situation. The second standpipe (referred to as siphon pipe from here forward) is generally an open pipe that is lower than the inlet of the Durso pipe. Both standpipes return to the sump via separate piping, tying them together defeats the purpose. The siphon pipe must have a valve between it and the sump at some point, this is optional for the Durso pipe. The siphon pipe should be sized to handle all of the pump flow with the valve wide open, but you will run it with the valve partially closed to only allow about 95% of the pump flow. With the siphon pipe restricted to about 95% of the pump flow the water level in the overflow box rises to the Durso pipe at which point it begins to flow down both pipes. The siphon pipe is now under full siphon because it is completely submerged. A pipe under full siphon is dramatically more quiet than a pipe with air entrained in it - and the sump is very quiet as well since there is no bubbling effect. The result is a very quiet system, and an added level of protection against flooding. Ideally both standpipes should be capable of taking the full pump flow of the other. Unless the Durso/Stockman pipe becomes completely blocked it is virtually impossible to flood. Link: http://dinardiengineering.com/blog/?p=34 - http://dinardiengineering.com/blog/?p=34 ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 12:40am
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I'd do a poll but the forum doesn't give me the option.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Ricordia
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 9:31am
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Ah, cool. Thanks for the link. I think I'll give this a try, since my setup is almost there anyway. I have three bulkheads in my overflow, the middle one is the return, the left goes to my refugium, the right to my sump. The left and right currently both have stockman stand pipes, so I should be able to just replace the right side with a shorter open pipe and adjust the valve to the sump until it's all silent. Can't wait to try it out now! ------------- Rich Allen Murray, UT 150g Leemar Starfire reef tank with a 40g sump 75g planted freshwater with tetras |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 7:04pm
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Would a 20 G tank be big enough for the sump/fuge in my 90?
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 7:19pm
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If you can go a little bit larger you will be happier. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 7:31pm
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The available space in my stand will be 45"x21"x21" (I'm estimating on the low side. Might be a couple inches higher and deeper). I know a 20 G tank will fit in there but I might be able to fit a bit more.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 7:42pm
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Just put the biggest 1 you can in. Make sure you have enough room for the footprint on 1 end for your skimmer ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 8:15pm
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Go with a Herbie style overflow. I have mine and LOVE it! People think Dursos are quiet until they see and hear a Herbie in action. Complete silence all the way around. I also don't see how a Herbie could EVER flood. First off, I have a strainer on my drain that keeps snails and anything else large enough to clog it, out. I clean it off weekly. Second, my emergency drain is 1 inch and can handle anything my tank will throw at it. If both clog, welcome to the hobby! My 1 inch drain can easily handle 1500gph or more. My return pump is moving about 250gph. I can have some serious things happen and never worry about a flood because of the drain system. My advice is to for sure get a GOOD 6 bulb T5 unit. You don't want to spend a couple hundred dollars now and then realize you made a mistake and have to spend even more later. Here are some links to read about lighting and Herbie methods and also my build thread. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38114 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38114 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32851 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32851 http://home.comcast.net/~stevelarsen00/site/?/home/ - http://home.comcast.net/~stevelarsen00/site/?/home/ http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138897 - http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=138897
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Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 8:26pm
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If I went with the Herbie style I'd have to drill a hole for a return. I'm sure I can find some instructions for how to do it, but am I pretty safe drilling my tank myself?
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: May 24 2010 at 8:40pm
I would drill the back glass myself and put the return through that. You won't be able to drill the bottom more than likely. It should be tempered glass. I like to keep my tanks a couple inches from the wall. That way I can look back there and check things out. I can also get the vaccuum back there every once in a while to keep dust in check.
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Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 12:17am
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I've been reading through BobC63's old 225 G build thread. I noticed he used a plenum. I was reading on RC forums that plenums used to be popular but now they're not. How do you guys feel about them?
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 12:23am
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From what I understand (and hopefully someone more seasoned can chime in) people were using Plenum systems so that there would be oxygen exchange in and under the sandbed, Most people then realized hat the clean up crews and sand sifters that we have already do the job, so the systems would just be a big huge trap for fish/food waste that essentially couldn't be cleaned. Obviously I am still new, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt, but thats what I understood about it.
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 3:25am
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I wouldn't do one if it were me just do like a 4" sandbed and you'll have just as much if not more filtration that a plenum would provide. Nature does it best. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 2:27pm
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I'll probably skip the plenum then. Thanks!
What kind of flow rate can I expect through a 1" bulkhead (hole in glass is 1-3/4")? How much does it go up if I go with the Herbie method?
This also leads me to, what size of return pump would I want to go with that flow rate?
(Sorry to ask so many questions. I usually dig around on the forums and internet before I ask them but sometimes it's really hard to find solid, relevant, and recent answers.) ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 2:39pm
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Another thought: Would it be tough to widen my drain and return holes? ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 3:11pm
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Honestly it will be harder than it looks, there is a lot of room for mistakes that can happen. It is possible, but by even making it a little off, you could mess up your seal.etc Two 1" drains should be more than enough for what you are looking for, i'll try and pull up some 90g build threads later tonight when I get home with some good examples of what you could do.
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Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 3:19pm
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I don't have two 1" drains. Just bulkheads for a 1" and a 3/4".
If I go with a Durso and a return running though my overflow I'd have a 1" drain and a 3/4" return. Wouldn't that only be around 300 gph? Is that enough?
If I go with a siphon (Herbie) method I'd have a 1" siphon drain and a 3/4" Durso with minimal flow. I think I'd be able to get around 700 gph with that setup but then I'd either have to drill for my returns or run them over the back.
Are my numbers correct? ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 3:33pm
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Just remember the more you drain the more you have to pump. Big pumps are quite expensive. Yes you need flow to the sump but how much do you really want or need? ( 10x or less)
Are you going to supplement the flow in the tank with powerheads?
I don't know anything about herbie. sorry ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 3:54pm
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I have reserved a couple of chalice frags for you when you're up and running.
Best part is they will be free! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 4:12pm
Heck yeah! Now I really have something to look forward to.
   ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: May 25 2010 at 5:52pm
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I am pretty sure a 1" Durso can move something like 950gph. That is plenty for your needs. I only like about 5x turnover through my sump. A 1" Herbie on the other hand can handle about 2000gph if I remember correctly. Either will work just fine. |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 12:24am
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Picked up a Kent (4-stage) RO/DI unit with booster pump from Bill in WVC. Saved me at least $100. Sweet! I also have my bulkheads and the top end of my return assembly now. Making progress... ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 12:58am
Agreed. Sounds like you are on your way! Get some plumbing going and post some pics! P.S. I have a 90gallon as well and I use a 45 gallon tank (I believe) for a sump. It makes a huge difference to go as big as possible, you won't regret it! It's also good peace of mind for floods when the power goes out. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 10:49pm
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I'm waiting on my stand to be built. I'm hoping to have it in a week or two. While I wait I guess I could use some advice on a few things. 1. Return Pump: I haven't decided if I'm going to use a wet or dry return pump (depends on what I do with my sump but I won't know that until I get my stand). I could really use some recommendations for each type (brand & model). It would have to push ~900 GPH with a 4' rise. I want it to be really quiet yet affordable, so I guess I'm looking for a best-bang-for-the-buck kind of recommendation. 2. Powerheads: Koralia seems to be the most popular. Are there any other good brands and how many GPH should they push in my 90 G tank (I'll buy 2-3)? 3. Skimmer: Make & model of skimmers I should keep my eye out for. Also, when I build my sump, how big/deep should I make the drain area to accommodate most skimmers? As usual, I'm always looking to get these items used, but I'll buy new if I have to. Other things I'm looking for: TDS meter, refractometer, T-5 48" 4 or 6 bulb light assembly, timers, etc. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:01pm
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Rio Hyperflow 32HF submersible. Quite, reliable, efficient, moves plenty of water at relatively high hf pressures and cheap (less than $100). ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:06pm
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I've been looking at that one. I'm glad to see someone second it.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 26 2010 at 11:22pm
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I use two of them on my 180 for my return pumps. They are each plumbed to a return on each side of the tank. So the left is on for two hours, then the right kicks on so both are on for 2 hours, and then the left shuts off so the right runs alone for 2 hours, and so on and so forth. It creates a nice back and forth flow to mimic wave and tidal flow. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 10:24am
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My recommendation on powerheads is to go with a Vortech. I know they are pricey but find one used. One MP40w would be enough for your tank. I used to use Koralias in my tank but then Skyler (ExoticReefOnline) got me a WAY good deal on a Vortech and I will NEVER go back to anything else. I thought Koralias were pretty good until I used something else. I can completely customize my flow depending on what the tank needs. I drop it down at night and then it goes full bore when all the lights are on. It sits and changes speeds all day for me and keeps everything really happy. Not to mention I don't have to look at powerhead land in my tank. One small power head and the rest is rock and corals. Just my advice though. Some people can't justify the cost of them. PS - As far as skimmers go, fishoutawater has one for sale in the Buy Sell Trade forum. It is an ASM G1x I think. That would be perfect for your tank and his price is really good.
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Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 10:53am
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Wow! You aren't kidding. I checked Marine Depot and those are priced way out of my range. Maybe someday...
As far as skimmers go, I think that's one of the last items I'll be picking up. I still could use some advice on the space I should provide in my sump for a future skimmer. I guess I just need to know what the biggest skimmer is for my size of tank and I can use that as my baseline. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 12:40pm
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I use 5 koralias in my 125 but sure wish I could buy a couple of mp 40's.
I would look up Like asm skimmers and get the footprint to build the sump and leave a little extra room.
Have you got your rock yet? I would get it and a large tub, powerhead and start curing it ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 1:43pm
I sure wish I could buy a couple mp40's too.  Sorry, I couldn't resist. Heck, they're about the same price.
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/MGC%2068/68%20MP40%20-13.jpg">  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 1:48pm
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 1:57pm
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You can cycle it all in the tank. Are you going to buy all live rock?
or utah rock with some live to seed it? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 1:57pm
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The rock thing has got my brain working. Would it speed up the process if I picked up some LR, some "dead" rock, and even some "dead" sand and threw it all into a couple of large Rubbermaid totes with a powerhead in each? If that worked it would give me a little head-start when I am ready to start my tank. What do you guys think? ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:01pm
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I was planning on getting dead rock and seeding it with some live rock. Same with my sand. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:06pm
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I think it would help. You need to have a heater also. Make sure you wash the lbtr at a carwash first, get afew pieces of cured live rock Put it all together and stir.
In 2 weeks itt would be ready to go!
Just make sure when you move it to your tank you keep it wet.
I wouldn't worry about the sand till you setup ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:10pm
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Sounds like I need to find some dead LBTR. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:35pm
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I would think Mark could hook you up but not sure. and the sand also. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:48pm
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I'll send him a PM. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 2:52pm
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Someone has 70# for sale on the site. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 3:00pm
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Yeah, I saw that but I'm not really ready for it. I need to buy tubs/totes, power heads, heaters, salt, tds & salinity meters, and hook up my RO system. It doesn't help that money's a little tight right now and I'll be away for a week in early June. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 3:44pm
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You can have it all set up with coral and fish in a week. I'll explain it when you come over to get the sand and rock.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 27 2010 at 11:27pm
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I have some LBTR you are welcome to. It just needs to be powerwashed. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 29 2010 at 1:42am
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I tried to get my RO system running tonight but I seem to have run into a snag.
I hooked up the unit
to a hose bib and water is only coming out of the waste water line. Does that
mean the RO membrane is bad or could it be something else? I double-checked to
make sure the RO membrane was seated properly and my water pressure is 60 psi. It's a Kent RO24TFC. It has an in-line filter, a DI unit, and a pump but I left those out just to see if the basic unit would work. I did try using the pump just to see if it would help but it doesn't seem to be working either. I hooked it up, plugged it in, and nothing happened. Edit: Never-mind. I got it working. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 29 2010 at 10:43am
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Feel free to call anytime. I can help with all of it quickly right over the phone.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 12:28pm
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Does anyone know how going from a 1" outlet on a pump to a 3/4" return pipe would effect the flow? The pump in questions has 1" outlet & inlet, pumps 1200 GPH, and would have a head of 5 ft. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 12:32pm
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How about an update on what you have done so far? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 12:44pm
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I really haven't done anything. Everything is still up in the air with my stand and that's holding up my decisions. If I don't get something going with my current builder in the next couple of days I'll start shopping for a new builder. The main thing is my decision on the canopy. If I go with a canopy I could buy a retrofit T-5 system. I talked to Ryan about them a bit and came up with the idea to start with a 4-bulb system and then I could add in LED blocks as time goes on. Eventually I could replace the T-5's with LED's or just continue to use them together. I like that idea and I might go with it but a lot of my decisions boil down to cost so I'll just have to see what happens. I've had some offers for equipment from various people but most of the offers seem tied to me buying a light system as well. This pump I'm looking at is not so I figure I can pursue that avenue while I wait. Also, I should be picking up some sand and rock from Mark tomorrow. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 1:14pm
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the 3/4" pipe would slow the flow a bit, but would also increase pressure. You can use the flow calculator on reef central to find out how much actual gph you'll be moving ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 1:34pm
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Looks like it should be fine. Now I need to decide if I'd rather have an internal or external pump. So many decisions.  ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 1:40pm
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I've never had an external. Like internal ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 1:43pm
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Yeah, I kind of agree. They're usually quieter and less worries about leaks. I don't think heat will be an issue since the tank will be in the coolest area of my house and I have central air.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 2:43pm
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did you hire someone to build your stand? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 3:13pm
Yeah. Basically it's a friend of the family. He's very good, and knows what he's doing, but he's retired and isn't known for his speed. I'm sure he'd do a great job, and save me some money, but the waiting is killing me. 
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 3:45pm
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I figured you would be ready for water by now! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 4:36pm
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Me too! Plus I'm leaving for Vegas in a week so I'm probably at least 2 weeks out on it now.
------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 4:40pm
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You know you can build a stand out of 2x4's and plywood then cover it all with nice paneling ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 5:06pm
Good question. I remember a demonstration at a club meeting years ago by WMAS member Jon Finch. Jon is a Chemical Engineer and currently production manager of the Flying J Oil Refinery. As a Chem.E. he knows fluid dynamics. I believe his demonstration used three pipe sizes. 3/4", 1" and 1.5" pipe at 6 feet of head with a powerhead that was rated at around 1000 gph. I remember that 1" pipe allowed more water flow than 3/4" pipe. The reason for this is called the Bernoulli principle. The smaller the pipe, the faster the same volume of water has to flow. The faster the flow, the more resistance builds up inside the pipe, placing a restriction on flow. On the other hand, a pipe that is too large in diameter has to push against the increased weight of the additional water. As I recall the pump could not push as much water when the 1.5" pipe was used. In setting up many marine aquariums both for myself and others, I have found that getting maximum flow is very important for a number of reasons. It also works best to buy a pump that is rated for a step above what you think you need. Then, when you find that more flow is needed, it's already available. Installation of a valve on the output side (never the input side as it causes cavitation damage) of the pump allows the flow to be turned down a step to where you want it. As time marches on, the pump becomes less efficient and residue builds up inside the pipe. At that point just simply ppen up the valve.  You will be glad you got a higher rated pump and plumbed it for maximum flow.That said, most manufacturer drilled aquariums have 3/4" bulkheads for the return. This will cause some restriction but only at that point. I would use 1" pipe from the pump to the bulkhead, bushed down to 3/4" at the bulkhead with either 1" or 3/4" from there to the return outlet. I ought to say something regarding minimizing flow restriction on the inlet side of the pump. The distance from the pump inlet to the impeller must be made as short as possible and use the same or larger diameter piping at the inlet fitting. The use of elbows should be avoided when possible. Here is an explanation for those interested in why this is so important: Already mentioned was the cavitation that can occur when flow is restricted. Cavitation starts when the impeller is trying to pull more water than is available. - This causes a low pressure area creating a vapor bubble of damaging hot steam. - The impeller, traveling through this hot steam bubble can immediately speed up. - Then, because the impeller cannot pull steam, the bubble collapses and water again fills the chamber. - The impeller which had increased in speed now hits the water like a solid wall causing streass to the impeller and the motor which had sped up and then braked. In extreme cases this cavitation action repeats many times per second. The vibration can eventually destroy the impeller, the volute chamber, and the pump motor. I have seen a volute that looked like someone had ground out a concave area in it. I was not sure whether that was due to cavitation steam bubbles or to sand being drawn into the inlet. Either way it was quite an interesting sight. Shayne, sorry, this was so long. I generally don't read build threads. I don't see any value in pointing out mistakes in something that is already built. It is also a lot of work to write down how to build something.  I read this thread to see if I could offer some design/pre-build tips when you come over tomorrow to get the sand and rock. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 5:16pm
Yeah, that's a last resort kind of idea. I don't have wood working tools and I don't have a truck (anymore) to haul materials. It's just easier to have someone else do it. Plus, as much as I talk about saving money, I'm not the type to do something halfway. It needs to be done well. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 5:22pm
Thanks for the info Mark. I was kind of thinking the same thing (IE: Running 1" to the bulkhead) but that spelled it out nicely. As far as build threads go I guess I'm doing mine kind of in reverse. Most people post, "Here is what I did today." Most of my posts are, "This is what I'm thinking of doing next." I think it's better that way so people can catch my mistakes before I make them. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 30 2010 at 6:53pm
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An internal pump is definitely the way to go, I may have mentioned it before but the 32HF will work great for your tank. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 2:51am
I've been reading some reviews and some people say they're very loud. Do you know if that's true? ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 10:06am
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I use two of them on my 180 and they are very quiet. If set up properly you won't even know it's there. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 10:28am
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Mine is very quiet ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: May 31 2010 at 8:28pm
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Got some Utah sand and LBTR today. Thanks Mark! ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 12:31am
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Tested my RO water. It comes out at 20 ppm (my untreated water is ~340 ppm). Is 20 ppm acceptable to use? My unit came with a DI canister but it doesn't have a DI filter. The guy who sold it to me said that DI water can be hard on rubber (gaskets, O-rings, etc) so he stopped using it and replaced it with another regular filter. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 12:48am
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20ppm is fine for a reef. I ran a tank with 20ppm water for a long time. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 12:57am
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Thanks! Note: Mark told me that range of ppm was fine but I was double-checking to see if the lack of DI was an issue. I'm not ignoring you Mark! ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 3:19pm
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Moving on to builder #2. Let's see how this one goes... ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:35pm
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Since I'm not making much progress at the moment, and I'm getting ready to go to Vegas for the World Series of Poker, I guess I'll lay out my plans so far. Once I get my new stand builder locked in, and my plans approved, I think I'm going to order this T5HO retrofit system (recommended by Ryan): http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/LET_Lighting/Miro-4_Retrofit_Kits/48_inch__4x54W_Miro-4_T5_High-Output_Retrofit_Kit_w%21_Bulbs_by_LET_Lighting - http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/LET_Lighting/Miro-4_Retrofit_Kits/48_inch__4x54W_Miro-4_T5_High-Output_Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_LET_Lighting It comes with bulbs and I think I'm going with 2 ATI Blue Plus, 1 KZ Fiji Purple, and 1 ATI Aquablue. Eventually I can add in some blocks of LED's and slowly upgrade my lighting. I'm still trying to decide on return pumps. Most of the used pumps I've been offered are external. I know external pumps are fine for most people but I think an internal would work a little better for what I'm planning for my sump. Speaking of sump (and fuge), unless I come across a good deal on a used sump, I think I'm going with "Bob's Rubbermaid el cheapo sump method". I'm looking at the Koralia Evolution powerheads. I'll probably pick them up unless I find some good used powerheads. I still need a couple of heaters, a salinity meter/refractometer, test kits, skimmer, and timers (I think). I think I've covered everything. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: June 02 2010 at 12:14am
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One more thing. I'm thinking about painting the back of my tank. My overflow (just off center) is black but I really like how the blue backgrounds look. Maybe I could go with a really dark blue? Does anyone have any thoughts? Also, what brands/kinds of paint should I look at? Here is a pic from the RC forums that I was looking at. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=109718&d=1271897826 - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=109718&d=1271897826 ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |