Hari Algae Help
Printed From: Utah Reefs
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Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: Posts that don't fit in any of the other categories.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42989
Printed Date: June 14 2026 at 3:36pm
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Topic: Hari Algae Help
Posted By: jw3571
Subject: Hari Algae Help
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 1:43pm
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I've about had it with my hair algae problem. If I can't get on top of it I may have to give up the hobby. I have a 46 gallon bowfront with t5 ho lighting, skimmer, and emperror 280 filter. I do water changes every other week. I only have 2 fish left, a black clown and and a wrasse. I have a CUC as well as many corals although they are almost completely covered by hair algae. I've been dosing reef buffer in my top of water as well as reef builder and reef complete 2x a week. This is what my lfs told me to do. It's probably also time for new bulbs as mine are around 16 months old.
Here are my water parameters:
Alk 9.0
PH 8.3
Phosphates 0.2
salinity 1.023
Can someone please help me, I'll try anything at this point. Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 2:31pm
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I can help. It's my specialty. Do you dose anything else? You mentioned a CUC. How many snails? How many hermits? Can you post a pic of the tank? What's the Ca level? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 9:39pm
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I don't have a calcium number. I get screwy numbers when i test for that. I do dose something called Fuel once a week for coral growth. I also have been putting Phosguard in my emperror 280 once every two weeks.
Do I need a different filter? Do I need more powerheads?
Thanks for your help Mark.
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:05am
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How many Snails and Hermits? Not to say you have done anything wrong, but up to this point Phosguard has not done much good, except maybe slowing the growth just a little. FYI, Phosguard is only used up when it turns tan/brown. Does it look that color when you change it? You may want to see the concurrent thread to the guy wanting a Sea Hare to control his hair algae. forum_posts.asp?TID=42962 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42962 What screwy Ca numbers do you get? Fuel is formulated to add both Alk and Ca. <EDIT>Whoops, that's not right, sorry.  Well, it's very important to know what the level is before dosing the chemical, otherwise you can really mess up the chemistry which messes up the biology of the tank. And eventually Alk or Ca need to be added separately because they get used up at different rates in each tank. Where do you live? I'd be happy to come visit, take a look at the tank and test Alk and Ca. I cannot say about the filter and powerheads without a seeing a pic or viewing it in person or at least reading a description. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:18am
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fuel is used for trace elements, acids,vitamins and minerals. Not for alk and cal. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:54am
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Oh, I'm sorry, I was thinking of something else. Thanks for correcting me. Okay, Fuel should be stopped for the time being. It is feeding the algae growth. For anyone else reading this, the current thread where jw3571 brought up the advice given by some that he needs new lights. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42978 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42978 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 8:10pm
| I'll try to take a pic tonight. I plan on scraping all the hair algae off this weekend and then cutting my feedings to once every 3 days. Is that a good start? |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 8:56pm
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Yes it is! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 9:42pm
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Additional questions for jw -
Photoperiod - how many hrs / day do you have your lights on?
Water - do you have an RO or RODI filter, or do you use tap water to top off and do your water changes?
(Fish) Food - how much do you feed those 2 fish?
(Coral) Food - As Mark said, stop the Fuel for now
Flow - Looks like only the HOB filter for water movement? Then yes, you need more flow (powerheads, etc)
Skimmer - what brand?
Phosguard - how much are you using at a time? What else is in that HOB filter (filter pads or cartridges, etc)?
Do you know your nitrate level?
What I would do:
1) Rip out all the hair algae you can... I know that it will be a big pain in the butt to do that, but your CUC will not eat long hair algae - only very short strands (something about the long algae develops a "bitter" taste to it)
2) For that size tank, you should have a total of at least 50 snails and 40 hermit crabs in there to keep up with the cleanup needs. If you have less than that, you need to get more.
3) Replace the Phosguard in your HOB. If you have a filter cartridge in there, remove it. I would fill a media bag half full with Phosguard and half with carbon and use only that in the filter.
4) No lights or food for 3 days straight. The lack of lights for 3 days will NOT harm your corals.
5) Consider replacing the T5 bulbs, as old bulbs shift spectrum and can contribute to excess algae growth.
6) 8 hrs of full light is plenty; if you want a longer photoperiod, then you can leave on any actinic (blue) bulbs for a longer time
7) Cut back feeding to 1 cube of frozen food (if that is what you are using) only every 3 -4 days. Consider getting a herbivorous fish (like a Yellow Tang, or a Coral Beauty Angel or small Foxface or Lawnmower Blenny) to help eat up any new algae growth.
8) If your nitrate is above 20 ppm, consider doing a 15 gallon water change.
9) Once the Hair algae has subsided, consider adding some macroalgae into your display tank. Chaeto algae is a good choice for this, as it doesn't 'connect' to the live rock and grow all over the place, it just stays in a nice 'ball'. The macroalgae will absorb some of the excess nutrients that are currently feeding that hair algae.
10) If you are using straight tap water, consider getting an RO filter to reduce the amount of minerals and nutrients going into your tank via top off water.
------------- - My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:05pm
| Answers for BobC63: I have the lights on for 8hrs/day. I buy my RO water from my fish store. I use it for topoff and water changes. I had been feeding a small piece of mysis or a pinch of pellets. I will stop the fuel for now. In addition to my Emperror 280, I have a aqua c remora skimmer along with 2 Koralia 2 powerheads. Do I need more? In my filter i'm running the pads that came with it that I believe have carbon in them. My Nitrate level is 0-5ppm |
Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:15pm
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I had a similar problem where the algae kept coming even when my nitrate was that low. I followed most of the advice given to me. I added more crabs, a deeper sand bed, and chaeto in the display. One thing I also did that wasn't mentioned to me was open the hood and allow a better gas exchange. I did this for my mangrove so it would have a place to grow but got the gas exchange as well. Now I get very little hair algae. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 10:16pm
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OK, so then you are already good on 6), 8) and 10) on my list...
I do not think you need any more flow right now; 2 K2s are sufficient.
I would still pull the pads and go with the carbon / phosguard in a media bag instead. That's what I do in my HOB filter on my 37g Hex tank. Those filter cartridges don't have all that much carbon in them, and the "pad" part ends up being a trap for food and other junk.
And think about more CUC, adding a herbivorous fish, and the macroalgae.
You definitely can beat this. ------------- - My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 11:01pm
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So the filter cartridges could be part of the problem? Stupid question, If I don't have the cartridges what happens to all food and junk it collects? Doesn't it just go back into my tank? Isn't that a bad thing? I'm just trying to understand. Also, I used to have both a coral beauty and a foxface but they've both died. I'd love a yellow tank but have read on other boards you really need a 6ft long tank to have a tang or even a foxface. Is this not true? |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 24 2010 at 11:36pm
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A small tang or foxface (2 - 3 inches long) would be OK for probably several years
The Lawnmower Blenny and Coral Beauty won't get too big at all
The problem with the cartridges is twofold.
1) All the stuff that collects on them, rots on them and decays into nutrients that can "feed" problems like hair algae. Without the cartridges, uneaten food and other stuff do go back into the tank - where either your fish, corals or CUC will eat it, instead fo it just rotting away. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but I can tell you my 37g tank is defintely cleaner looking since I stopped using the filter cartridges.
2) Cartidges only have a small amount of carbon in them. I busted open a Penguin HOB filter cartidge one time and it was like 1 teaspoon of carbon in there. Not nearly enough to do any real good. Using a media bag filled with maybe 1 or 2 cups of carbon and a 1/2 cup or so of Phosguard is more along the lines of what you should try...
------------- - My Current Tank: 50g Starfire Cube Reef * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 9:06am
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I agree with everything that was said above. Good advice.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: arthuriv
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 9:48am
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I may have missed it but other than the Cuc what kind of clean up crew do you have? How many hermits and snails and what kind? Do you have any emerald crabs? ------------- Quality Marines Aquaculturing & Captive Breeding program! Presented by Ashley & Chelsea from Reef On Thursday 6 Oct 2016 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 10:05am
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I too will agree with just about everything that has been said here.
I would recommend an urchin to also help out. I had hair algae when I first set up a tank about 3 years ago. I added a Blue Tuxedo Urchin and within a week it mowed down all of the hair algae. I then kept it for a while longer to make sure nothing was going to return. I then sold it back to the LFS so it didn't die from a lack of food in my tank. However, I think the recommendations of adding like 40 snails and 50 crabs is a little crazy. In my 40 gallon tank I have maybe 10 astrea snails, 4 cerith snails and 5 nasassarius(sp?) snails. I might have one or two crabs at this point. I HATE hermit crabs in my tank anymore. At one point every snail I put in, they ate. So I pulled some out and have just let the others die over time. I'm sure there was a reason for the crabs eating the snails but I solved the problem another way. I dose Vodka in my tank to help keep nutrients under control. I have no signs of bad algae in my tank and only have to clean the glass maybe every 3 days. Vodka is a whole other topic though. Try what has been said here and I bet the algae is gone pretty quick. |
Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 11:44am
As long as you don't have an anemone! no light for 3 days sent my anemone moving and took a while to nurse him back to full health. ------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
BobC63 wrote:Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 1:00pm
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Lawnmower blenny was one of my favorite cleaners. fun fish and they don't get too big. 40 snails is actually spot on, if not a few more. 50 crabs seems like a bit much. Depending on the snails I would do about 50 snails and about 10 hermits or a couple of emerald crabs. In my 90g I have about 20 hermits (never had a problem with any of them) 2 emeralds and about 120 snails (They've been breeding....) Bob's right about those filter pads. Unless you are changing them about weekly, they are pretty worthless. Get a media bag or some type of mesh bag for your carbo. Do everything else he said and you'll be good to go in no time. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: DLindquist
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 2:54pm
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All tanks are different but- I have a 90 gallon with 0 crabs & 0 snails. I had a yellow tang & coral beauty but just sold them as I prepare for my new shipment of fish. Hopefully I will not have to load up on snails or crabs as I am not a big fan either. ------------- A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have. |
Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 3:55pm
Wow, how do you get away with no snails or crabs? A large refugium, deep sandbed, big skimmer, etc? Thanks, ------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 5:41pm
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Older tanks don't usually need as many Snails and even fewer Hermits. It also depends on what kind of carnivorous fish are in the tank. No carnivores means lots of bugs can grow to eat the algae before it even shows up to become a problem. Also, tanks "without snails" often have a large population of the BB size colonista snails or other effective herbivores like Urchins, etc. The no light method is very effective, but I suggest only 2 days of complete darkness(use a blanket, too.) and a day of light because 2 days is just enough to start algae die-off but not too much to kill anything else. A second cycle of 2 days of darkness is sometimes enough. The herbivores do the rest. All of this is mentioned in the How To section of the thread linked below. This method is not as fast as taking the LR out of the tank and giving it a good toothbrushing, but it's much much better for the tank in the long run, because removing LR leaves air in the pores causing more death=>more pollution=>more algae growth. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: August 25 2010 at 6:31pm
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I just wanted to say I also agree with most of the advice given, but wanted to point out something I've noticed in a few posts. Many people are confused because they have a hair algae outbreak even with low nitrates and phosphates. This is completely normal for most situations, the reason the nitrate and phosphate levels are low is because the algae is consuming all of them. It's not uncommon to see a tank fully engulfed in hair algae and have nitrates and phosphates test at next to 0. I think many people, especially those new to the hobby have a hard time understanding this part of the equation. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:16pm
| So it sounds like everyone agrees I should take out the filter pads. I have been changing them every two weeks. It will definately save money by getting rid of them. I can't decide between taking all the rocks out and scrubbing them to get rid of the hair algaie or just trying to pick it off. It looks like people said I could go either way. I'm leaning more towards taking them out. I've always wanted a tang, but on other boards people freak out if you try to put one in tank that's less than 6ft long. It sounds like people on here don't have that same opinion. Also, I ordered new bulbs and they'll be here this weekend. |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: August 26 2010 at 10:49pm
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No Tang police here. If you buy a tank raised tang that is small then it should do fine in the tank for a while.. even a couple of years. But once it grows bigger you'll have to find it a new home in a bigger tank.
------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 27 2010 at 9:16am
Just so you know, my experience is based on helping many hundreds of hobbyists eliminate algae problems. You watched this algae for many months as it took over your tank. If you can be patient, the natural method of cutting it's supply of energy to grow and then allowing herbivores to clean it up, is many times better in the long run than taking the LR out of the tank. Every time LR is removed from the water it fills with air. Air kills the life on LR. Death creates pollution (Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate). Pollution grows algae. You mentioned needing to be budget minded. The best money you can spend on your tank right now is on 50 Snails and 25 Hermits. You know what I just realized  We still have not seen a picture of this tank, nor a description.  We are going back and forth discussing a problem we know next to nothing about. Our advice is really only half good unless we can see how much of a problem we are dealing with. Please post a pic or at least describe the algae. How much area does it cover? Rock, Sand, coral, pumps? How long is it? has it killed any coral yet?Begging your pardon, but please do not make a decision yet. We don't have enough information to properly advise you. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 27 2010 at 11:15pm
| I promise to post a pic tomorrow. The algae is on pumps, rocks, sand, filter. I would guess it is a few inches long. Even when i pick it off the powerheads it seems to come back in a day or two. I've substantially cut down on my feedings to every 3 or 4 days. I stopped adding the Fuel. It's close to choking out a few corals. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 28 2010 at 10:59am
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Thanks for the brief explanation. How much area is it covering, like completely covering every rock? Have you read the procedure in the thread about Eliminating an algae problem? http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 28 2010 at 8:45pm
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 28 2010 at 9:35pm
| Mark, above you can see the pic of my tank. As you can see it's not as bad as the pic in the link you sent but it is all over. My new bulbs came today and they were all broken. I plan on leaving the light off for a few days and cover the tank with towels. I'm also going to beef up my snails. Should I wait to take out my filter pads or should I wait the problem is resolved? Do you think I need more powerheads or do I need them repositioned? Thanks for everyone's help. |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: August 28 2010 at 10:07pm
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I would take your powerheads out and scrub/pull/cut all that algae off. That's like 1/2 your algae problem right there and easily remedied. Nice tank btw! ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: August 29 2010 at 4:07pm
| I pulled most of the hair algae off a few days ago, this is how much has already grown back. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 29 2010 at 9:42pm
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Please call me as soon as you read this. We have a lot more to discuss than I can easily write. I'm a slow typist.
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: August 29 2010 at 9:53pm
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Pull your powerheads out of the tank and soak them in hydrogen peroxide for 30 min. That will kill ALL of the algae growing on them, then you can rinse them off in some RO and return them to the tank. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 31 2010 at 10:04am
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That's a great suggestion. After you do that call me and I'll help you place them back in the tank a way that will help with eliminating the hair algae. My number is below in the sig. line
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 06 2010 at 1:47pm
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Where did you go jw3571?
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 8:46pm
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For everyone to learn some more algae control techniques, I hope that jw3571 doesn't mind that we talk about it here: In answer to my PM query he said: I would guess I have 40-50 snails and probably 25 hermits. It seems the hermits kill the snails really fast. I do have a bunch of empty shells laying around but the hermits still kill the snails. I have not heard about suspended reefs or the tripod method of aquascaping. Thanks again. And now my response: Wonderful. Good information. We can work with that. Hermits that are eating snails may be very hungry and some snails may not have made it. Hermits are really good at sniffing out snails that are on the way out. Ordinarily, I would suggest trading 15 Hermit Crabs for 15 more Snails. But in this case we can make use of those Hermits. By the way, do you know how to acclimate snails for better survival  Okay, remove 15 of the Hermit crabs to a separate container/bucket. Move in a little LS from the tank and a small piece of LR, especially one with some hair algae on it, into the container. Set the rock at the outside so as the Hermits walk around the outside perimeter of the container, they will find the rock. If you have an air pump and airstone, run that in the container to provide some water circulation. Or a small powerhead works too. Set it on the bottom pointing straight up. If you don't have either, let me know and I'll loan you one of mine. Set the container in the dark. No heater is needed so long as the temperature is 68-80. Leave it alone for several days, checking it's progress daily. Let me know how it goes so we can tweak the process if necessary. Coral living on the rock will be fine with a few days of darkness. Soon the hermits should clean the algae off the rock. When they do, replace that rock and 10 of the hermits back into the tank with another rock and and as many of the other hermits as possible. (Hermits can be located easily as they move around soon after feeding the tank.) Repeat the process if necessary and if possible. Some of the rocks may be too large too move out. By the way, do you know about moving LR so it doesn't get air in it to cause die-off This procedure will not only help clean some rocks, it will teach the Hermits to enjoy algae. The rocks that are too large to move into the separate container may get more attention from the Hermits after you move them back into the tank. Okay, if you don't mind, let me know if you can do this and let's see how well this works before taking the next step.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 9:50pm
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Mark,
I don't mind giving this a shot. Just so I'm clear, we're in effect training the hermits to eat the hair algae? Also, I don't know either of your questions. I'd love to hear the answers.
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Posted By: DLindquist
Date Posted: September 07 2010 at 10:40pm
My tank went 2 weeks with no fish and I did see some algae accumulation. Took a toothbrush to it and it is gone. I have ordered in 10 snails and 20 crabs just to be safe until I get the tank stocked with my new fish. ------------- A government strong enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take everything you have. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 08 2010 at 11:01am
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Yes, Hermits are scavengers so will eat whatever is available. If the only thing available is hair algae they will eat that. Once they get a taste for it they will be more likely to eat it in the tank, especially since feeding has been decreased. Acclimating some snails is more difficult. I can simply toss Margarita snails in a tank and most of them will survive. Cerith are similar, but Astrea snails are very sensitive and must be acclimated and set right side up to survive. Of course, it's best to acclimate everything. The acclimation technique is in one of the "Tips" linked below. Moving rock submerged is a very important thing to understand. Air kills the life that is in LIVE Rock. Dead LR creates all sorts of pollution in a tank. Again, look in the thread linked below and find the part about moving LR without letting it touch the air and also look for the "twist, turn and shake". ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 7:57pm
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It's been a week. What kind of results are you seeing with the hermits? Also, I needed to mention the aquascaping in this tank and the idea of opening up more sand or even making a suspended reef. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: jw3571
Date Posted: September 15 2010 at 8:50pm
| Mark, I'm only a few days in. I waited until I did a water change and then used that water. The hermits appear to be starting to mucn on the algae. Let me know your thoughts on aquascaping, etc? If you recall, i'm going to be setting up a 90g soon so I want to make sure i get my rock setup nicely in the new tank. |