I wanted to start a thread discussing why we add phytoplankton to our reef tanks. I think some using it really don't need to and could save a lot of money.

I think any reef tank can benefit from its addition, but the benefit may not be worth the cost in some tanks.

First there is the "theraputic effect" of adding greenwater. There are some that say its addition can aid in maintaining fish health. Dont ask me how it works though.

Adding phyto can dramatically increase the pod population in a reef tank which may be very beneficial for picky eaters that will not accept frozen food. Its also a good diet supplement for any other fish that will eat them.

Many tanks have filter feeders which depend on phytoplankton to obtain sufficient nutrition, but many tanks do not have any.  Most corals do not use phytoplankton.  Even some larger clams do not need phytoplankton, but certainly would benefit from its addition.

For anyone involved in rearing fish, phytoplankton is a must for food production (rotifers etc.)

What am I leaving out??

I think some using it really don't need to and could save a lot of money.

Oh this hurts my eyes to read.  I can't believe you said that.  I spend a lot of time telling people "Hey your tank cost you $3,000 just spend the $15 on plankton and quit complaining". 
I don't think we should be telling people not to buy it, but should be telling people all the reasons to buy it.

Adam

"It is very possible to have a beautiful, healthy reef tank without adding phytoplankton. It is just important to be selective on which animals are added"

I guess the above statement is what im getting at. I think many people have tanks that would thrive even without the addition of phytoplankton, yet they still add it. At $15-30 for a bottle that is only good for a month or two....well, it adds up quick. I think that person would be better off putting that money towards better lighting or more frequent water changes....or something.

Mark, no offense taken since I know im right . There are a lot of misconceptions about phytoplankton and its good we do a bit of clarification.

"Most coral DO benefit directly from phytoplankton and the tank in general does benefit from regular feedings"

Mark, I do not disagree with this. Like I said in my first post, "I think any reef tank can benefit from its addition, but the benefit may not be worth the cost in some tanks".

"He fed Velvet Green and Rotifers to his 120 regularly....Tim had a Green Slimer Acropora that grew over to the back glass, across the back glass about a foot and out along the surface of the water almost 5 inches in some spots"

I guess we should talk about which corals use phytoplankton as food and which use other forms (bacteria, DOM, zooplankton, etc). I believe Eric Borneman can say it better than I can. From his book...

"Corals can utilize all of the sources of nutrition available to sessile invertebrates. They are largely carnivorous, mostly feeding on zooplankton, or small water-borne animals....Phytoplankton, or small water-borne plants, are utililized extensively by some corals, but less so by most. Stony corals almost always reject plant material as food, although a few have been found to ingest it in relatively small amounts. Soft corals, zoanthids, and gorgonians are much more likely to feed on plant material".

Mark, do you agree with the following statement...

"It is very possible to have a beautiful, healthy reef tank without adding phytoplankton. It is just important to be selective on which animals are added"

I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with Adam (bananatropics) on regular feedings of phyto, but here's another quote from Eric Borneman.  Moreover, I don't think we should have growth be the norm.  A very healthy/successful tank can have slow growing corals.

Do We Need to Provide All This Food?

I think we do. There are many ways to do be a successful reefkeeper. I think such a diversity of thought and method should be encouraged. I also think the understanding and provision of proper food sources is an important and relatively recent school of thought in keeping aquaria; one that is just beginning to be realized by many. It is a key aspect of natural communities, and it has provided me with visible and tangible evidence of its importance in aquariums. I have crystal clear water and no problem algae with healthy fish and thriving corals. "So what," the reader may say, "Certainly the same can be said for those keeping stony coral galleries with powerful foam fractionators." Yes, it could. Indeed, I was once one of those people and I considered myself to have a very successful aquarium. But now, I have "reef snow" in my tanks, I have copious natural sponge growth, and I have communities of animals that never existed (or did not thrive) in the absence of these food sources. I also feel it is important to utilize food sources that provide maximal nutrition with minimal volume or unused components. In other words, high protein sources (e.g. "Golden Pearls") live or cultured live sources (e.g. Artemia, Mysis, rotifers), unicellular algal cultures (or live phytoplankton products such as DT's phytoplankton), and fresh whole food products (e.g. blenderized seafoods and algae), along with the intentional growth of a biodiverse community acting together as predators, prey, producers, and decomposers, is vital to success in keep coral reef communities in aquariums.

It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be a thriving community of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely a collection of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae. By intentionally depriving many of these animals of natural food sources, I think we become lax in our responsibility, even if we did not spend money to acquire them. Dinnertime is a happy time for all, and nutrition is a universal requirement for survival. We may never be able to duplicate the coral reef, but we can get closer and closer as we learn more about closed systems and the natural communities.

A very interesting read(if you read the whole article) By Eric Borneman as well on ReefKeeping.com.  Not siding one way or the other, just thought it was relevant to the subject. 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-10/eb/ - http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-10/eb/

Adam, I'm glad you started this post.  I was just thinking as I read the post on ordering Phycopure if there was any real reason to be feeding this stuff.  At $21 for 16 oz. I say "ouch".  (No offense to Adam B. )

I know that clams and other such filter feeders, probably including sponge, use this stuff, but I often wondered, as I fed it to my tank, if any of the corals or fish had any use for it.  All of the commercial phyto products seem very expensive.  I know products like Phycopure are very concentrated, but in a 180 gallon aquarium I found that the bag I got at the "Andy Rhyne" meeting "went" in a real hurry.  Basically I fed it twice, half of it each feeding at 1 feeding per week.  Is that overkill?  Keep in mind my tank is packed with Softies, 'Shrooms and LPS.  Obviously I would never feed this much in the 150 at my office that has relatively few corals.

So here are a few more questions that the more phyto-knowledgeable in the club may be able to answer for me.

1) I feed the frozen Tahitian Blend from Brine Shrimp Direct.  Does this count as "phyto" just like say "DT's" or a homegrown culture or is this considered something else?

2) Is the Tahitian Blend from Brine Shrimp Direct "Live"?  I can't understand how it could be after being frozen, but every time I feed it I can be assured of a lush green growth of algae on my aquarium glass.

3) Though I know this is a relative question I'll ask it in simple terms anyway.  Refer to the above info about my tank in reference to this.  How much "phyto" should you feed?  I typically feed a small dollop of Tahitian Blend about once per week. (Dollop = about the amount of hand soap that you get in 1 squirt from a dispenser.)   Is this enough to make a difference in a tank the size of mine or is this like feeding "A" flake of food to my fish?

I appreciate any help I can get on this subject as I really want to understand how my feeding is affecting my tank.  Thanks in advance.

I'm hoping someone answers Will's question.  I feed a ton more Tahaitian Blend than that.  I asked Tim, the owner of BSD, and he said that TB is not live. 

How much Phyto should you feed?  (I'd love to know.) 

When I buy Joe's Mountain mix, it's $7 a box.  I think if I follow the directions that I need about 5 boxes.

Weimers wrote: I think if I follow the directions that I need about 5 boxes.

And you should feed that everyday?  5 X $7 = $35.  I don't eat that well myself.  $35 has to last me and entire week.

I've read stuff on the net where people feed up to 2 - 2 liter bottles of home grown Phyto a day.  For those who have room to grow it great, but if we have to buy it at $35/day most of us would go broke before the corals could show any growth.

1) I feed the frozen Tahitian Blend from Brine Shrimp Direct.  Does this count as "phyto" just like say "DT's" or a homegrown culture or is this considered something else?

It is similar in nutritional value, but effects water quality more. Live phyto, if given sufficient light and nutrients, will continue to reproduce and will not deteriorate water quality. Ive never used it, but think I heard once that the dead cells clump together - not good if a smaller size is needed (1-10 microns).

2) Is the Tahitian Blend from Brine Shrimp Direct "Live"?  I can't understand how it could be after being frozen, but every time I feed it I can be assured of a lush green growth of algae on my aquarium glass.

It is dead. The lush green growth is most likely existing algae in the water getting a boost from the extra nutrients added to the tank (the dead algae)

3) Though I know this is a relative question I'll ask it in simple terms anyway.  Refer to the above info about my tank in reference to this.  How much "phyto" should you feed?  I typically feed a small dollop of Tahitian Blend about once per week. (Dollop = about the amount of hand soap that you get in 1 squirt from a dispenser.)   Is this enough to make a difference in a tank the size of mine or is this like feeding "A" flake of food to my fish?

I add about 300ml of phytoplankton to my 90 gallon  tank daily. It is home-grown and has a density of about 20,000,000 cells/ml. I believe DTs has a density of about 200,000,000 cells/ml and phycopure is about 180,000,000. So I dose the equivalent of 30ml (1 oz) of DTs daily. Does someone know the recommended dosage of DTs? I would say any is better than none. But would also say that you can add too much. Like you said, the amount added depends on a lot of variables. If the live phytoplankton is not eaten and doesn't have what it needs to survive (light, nutrients etc). then it will die and pollute the water.

I think the best way to determine how much to use is to experiment a little and add different amounts over time and closely monitor the tank. For a little while, I replaced all evaporated water with nannochloropsis culture (about 12,000,000 cells/ml) grown in fresh water. That equated to about a gallon a day to my tank. Thats about 46,000,000,000 cells/day or about 8 oz of DTs Phewww..hope my math is right. I had no problems doing this.

Just a slight input to adams argument.

I started of dosing phyto but found out most of it just went into the skimmer now that my skimmer is down it just forms along the glass So I second adams notion that  "I think any reef tank can benefit from its addition, but the benefit may not be worth the cost in some tanks".  as with mine.

I think this would be a good place to ask?

How easy it is to start your own Phytoplankto. It is worth to do it your self? I would like to find out more before I want to invest in keeping what I want in my tank I currently have a clam in my tank I don't know what to feed it and I heard this would be a good source for clam and softies coral.  Thanks in advance

I think it's way easy!

Hi J's 55

Yes I would like to set up and try. Where do you live. I live in westvalley. So how do I contact you. And Thanks for the offer.

Bump 

Thanks Adam, thats is really very good information I'm surprised I never found this trend.

nellans, i have used both the density stick sold by FAFUSA and a hemocytometer.

To make your own density stick, just take a small piece of white plastic (about the size of a nickle) and make a black circle on it. Then attach the plastic on a stick or straw or something waterproof. Lower the stick into the culture until you cant see the black circle anymore. Then determine how many centimeters under the surface the plastic is. There are some certain lighting requirements when doing the measurment that i'll need to look up. I'll also need to look up the conversion from centimeters to density (cells/ml). Or you could always just bring me a sample and i'll count the density using the hemocytometer.

Im working Thursday night so i wont be at the meeting.

The hemocytometer needs to be used with a microscope anyways. Just get me a small sample and i'll do the rest. I can also look for biological contaminants (rotifers etc).

Dang Adam (BananaTropics) is a cool guy.  I sure enjoy having him in the club. 

Adam