need help chooseing light.
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Topic: need help chooseing light.
Posted By: herrera
Subject: need help chooseing light.
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 12:54pm
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Hey guys looking to buy a light to support coral, and a bubble tip anemone.
What is the best light for under $200? prefer LED if there is any good ones in that price range. Here are a few i have looked at. which is the best out of these four?
My tank is 120g 4x2x2
This first one cetches my eye the most.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-AQUARIUM-LIGHT-T5-HO-6X-39-WATT-REEF-LUNAR-MOONLIGHTS-LIGHTING-W-BULBS-NEW-/190586955266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5fde2602 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-AQUARIUM-LIGHT-T5-HO-6X-39-WATT-REEF-LUNAR-MOONLIGHTS-LIGHTING-W-BULBS-NEW-/190586955266?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5fde2602
http://www.marineandreef.com/Marineland_Reef_Capable_LED_Lighting_System_18_24_p/rml33000.htm - http://www.marineandreef.com/Marineland_Reef_Capable_LED_Lighting_System_18_24_p/rml33000.htm
http://www.marineandreef.com/36_inch_4_lamp_Coralife_Lunar_Aqualight_T5_Light_p/res08606.htm - http://www.marineandreef.com/36_inch_4_lamp_Coralife_Lunar_Aqualight_T5_Light_p/res08606.htm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-METAL-HALIDE-250-4X-39-T5-HO-AQUARIUM-LIGHT-MOONLIGHTS-LUNARS-HOOD-NEW-/170704205211?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bec3759b - http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-METAL-HALIDE-250-4X-39-T5-HO-AQUARIUM-LIGHT-MOONLIGHTS-LUNARS-HOOD-NEW-/170704205211?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bec3759b
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Replies:
Posted By: m.ash
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 1:01pm
| I run the 36-MH on my 65 gallon, it works great for my RBTA, and all corals execpt acros so far. The only problem I've had is that the MH heats the fixture faster than the fans can keep up with and it has made the wiring brittle. If I was doing a 120 I'd have at least 2 250 MH's on it. |
Posted By: Aquaristnewbie
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 1:37pm
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I would also check out aquatraders.com I use 2 of their 4 bulb T5 fixtures over my 65 and grows everything. SPS, LPS, softies, RBA,s. I like how I can change the bulbs to get cool color and growth as well as it using a lot less power than my old MH's. ------------- 150 gallon Reef Millcreek Utah |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:38am
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great link! will this be good enough? it says it comes with a 10000k bulbs. i heard to use 6500k. what is the difference? |
Posted By: Aquaristnewbie
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:14pm
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The lower in number you go the more yellow the higher you go the more white/blue. Personally I use 6 actinics and 2 10Ks in my setup. I like the color it gives and gets good growth too. Its really preference. Some say the lower you go the faster growth but worse color you get out of corals. I dont know for sure since I have never gone below 10K. I love these fixtures and you can always switch out the bulbs to what you want. ------------- 150 gallon Reef Millcreek Utah |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:56pm
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great thanks! with this be a strong enough light, to support a bubble tip anemone, and zoes.
http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52305.htm - http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-4x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52305.htm
also what is the main difference in t5, and metal halide 200w ?? which is better for coral growth? and why
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Posted By: Aquaristnewbie
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 1:10pm
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They both have their advantages. With T5 you can tweek the colors more and MH tend to penetrate the water better and get deeper. Personally I would put 2 of those over my tank but one should support softies and a bubble tip well. ------------- 150 gallon Reef Millcreek Utah |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 1:44pm
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=48+t5+6&_sacat=0&_odkw=t5+aquarium+light&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 - http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=48+t5+6&_sacat=0&_odkw=t5+aquarium+light&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
herrera wrote:Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 5:05pm
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On a 120 gallon tank you will need at least 6 bulbs and it better be a whole lot better than Aquatraders. I would want an 8 bulb ATI Sunpower over a 120, especially if you want an anemone. They require a lot of light.
I hate to say it but $200 isn't going to cut it for a 120 unless you find something for a steal in the used section. I would plan on at least $500 for lighting a 120. If that can't be done, get a smaller tank. |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 5:49pm
+1. Thank you for saying what I have been wanting to say all week. I just haven't been near a computer to type it |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 5:57pm
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 6:05pm
I would never spend money on them again. I used one when they went by the name Jebo and got such a bad reputation they had to change names. There is a reason they are cheap, they have ZERO quality control and use the CHEAPEST components they can find. Good luck getting ANY customer service help from them. I dealt directly with Aquatraders when mine had issues right out of the box and they wanted me to pay to ship it back to them. Um....I just bought a light with a "full" warranty and it doesn't work out of the box and you expect me to float the bill on shipping both ways? I don't think so. I can look at a light and tell you if puts out any serious type of light. Especially enough to cover a 48x24x24 area. 4 bulbs will not cut it on a tank that i 24" front to back. An Aquatraders T5 light is NOT going to penetrate 24" of water. Don't believe me? Go search through the hundreds of threads on Reef Central where people actually measure their light output. I don't need to try the "new" version to know it is a piece of junk. If Ford came out with a Pinto next week, it will still be a piece. Buy cheap, buy often. |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 7:21pm
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If I were you and $200 was my budget on lights I'd either save up for a super nice T5 setup or try to find a retro metal halide on the board. You could get a pair of 250 W MH retros for around $200 used and grow anything you want.
You can also get the aquatrader t5 but I do recommend the 6 bulb over the 4 - just remember you'll want to trade out for some quality bulbs ASAP in order to grow anything so factor that cost in. I prefer ATI bulbs. The default bulbs are garbage. Lots of people on this board have used Aquatraders light fixtures for many years with no problems so I'd say go for it if that's all you can use for the budget. Are they cheaper then ATI fixtures? Of course they are - you're only paying $200 bones for them. Will they work to grow SPS and anemones Yup. Lots of examples on this board of people doing just that! ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 7:57pm
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I'll know soon if they treat me any better than your experience. Out of the 10 fixtures I've seen purchased or I bought, only one has had a problem so far. 10% is pretty bad but it's also a small sample size. I'm working with their customer service now and hopefully they will replace my dead ballast.
I don't think that the par can be very much different, although I wouldn't doubt that it would be a little less every time. I had a 180g that was 24" and the aquatrader lights worked for me, everything grew well.
Anyway, for less than half the cost, I see it as worth the risk and 5% less performance. So far it has worked out well for me. If I had a 120 I might give this a try--> http://www.aquatraders.com/48-716W-Metal-Halide-T5-LED-Combo-p/54267.htm - http://www.aquatraders.com/48-716W-Metal-Halide-T5-LED-Combo-p/54267.htm
I also drive a cheap car. It is over 10 years old and I get 40MPG. It keeps going and going. Very much worth it and paid off.
There are some things that I would never skimp on quality. Like my backpacking stove that I've had for 10 years, and I never expect to have to get another one, ever.
Bottom line, it is hard to really know what is worth it in the long run unless you test a large sample size and compare total cost over a long period of time, and I haven't seen that data in all my reading.
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 10:34pm
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Here is something worth noting that Justin(jwoo) brought up.
Aquatraders 6 bulb unit is around $200. Add another $150 in new bulbs. So you are at $350 for that unit. It probably doesn't have active cooling either so you will be replacing bulbs every 6-8 months. A brand new Tek fixture is $415 with bulbs of your choice. Plan another $25-50 for a way to mount the fixture and you are about $100 more than the Aquatraders unit. Yet, you have a known winner and the BEST customer service in the industry in Reefgeek. Will you really give that up for $100? In this hobby? Madreefer, A 6 bulb Aquatraders fixture is no where near that close in performance to a 6 bulb ATI. Try 50% less performance using the same wattage or close to it. This is the order of the best performers on the market that I can find. Some fixtures don't have readings for them. ATI Powermodule ATI Sunpower (within 2-5% of the Powermodule) Aquactinics Constellation (no longer made) Tek Elite (about 25% behind an ATI) Aquatic Life (switched to ATI bulbs) Tek (about 30% behind ATI and you need an external fan to help cool things down) Current USA Everything else cheap (way at the bottom) Lighting is one area we can't afford to skimp on. I am not saying to go out and buy the most expensive thing you can find but going cheap will bite you in the butt one day. I know, I have been there. These are live animals in our care and they deserve more than "just good enough." |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 10:42pm
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To follow up on my earlier post - even if you get a retro fit MH plan on new bulbs (who knows how old the bulbs are if you get it used?) IMO bulbs are almost more important then the fixture. I use a crappy catilina fixture - does it have the par out put of a TEK Elite or ATI? No. But with some good quality bulbs it is almost there (within 15%). So yeah plan on new bulbs no matter what you do (unless it comes with quality ones built in). Active cooling is a good point too but frankly I just installed a fan for my fixture and it gets me 12-14 months of bulb life before I see decreased growth. My tank is also at the point where I don't WANT or need extreme growth (I really need to frag things) so that could be a factor as well.
I guess the tl;dr portion for this thread is: Lights are complicated and no one way is the only way. Look at the options and factor in ALL the cost not just the fixture and then decide. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:10pm
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I don't replace the bulbs, the bulbs work fine so those numbers don't add up for me. And I've ran bulbs for 2 years and still going, no algae or problems like so many claim. And I don't believe the 50%.
I would probably do 2x4bulb aquatraders if I was going for max and t5 on a 120. that is 8x54watt for $200. The ATI Powermodule 8x54watt costs $750. That is a huge difference, 3.75 times the cost. The tek 8x54watt is $538, 2.69 times the cost.
Maybe I just do other things different so it doesn't matter.
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Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:15pm
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I don't think you can say I don't take care of the animals in my care. Good enough is still easy to get too much growth. |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 6:18am
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You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Show me the PAR numbers where an Aquatraders setup is keeping up with other units. I will wait patiently.
PS - I will be waiting a long time. I've seen numbers for an Aquatraders T5 setup. It is 50% behind the ATIs. |
Posted By: kody72
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 7:29am
Sorry I dont know where $750 comes in on a ati powermodule they run 900 to 1100 depending on where you get and with or without bulbs. I thought just like you and boy was I wrong. I own the powermodule 8x54w and own 2 of the aquatraders 4x54w huge difference and it was worth every penny. I think your okay using the aquatraders on a very shallow tank but thats about it. ------------- http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60612&title=kody72-fishroom" rel="nofollow - KODY72 FISHROOM BUILD 281g DT 187g Rimless Frag ATI PM lighting SRO DSCR-300ext 8013908179 |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 8:56am
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Ryan, Give me a par meter to use and I'll try to set that up.
Kody, I believe that it is better, but is it 3.75 times better?
I think that industrial lighting is used very widely and cheaper because of it. Specialty lighting like for reefs is overpriced because people pay for it, but it's not always worth it. I don't have a lot of experience with all the different brands. But I have always had success with aquatraders. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to buy. I'm just trying to pass on my experience and thoughts.
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Posted By: Laird
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 9:13am
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A regular tek fixture is the very worst T5 light I would ever consider buying. I started off with tryin a few different cheap T5s fixtures when I was first starting and they were all just piles of junk.
I first switched to better bulbs before I switched to better fixtures. I thought that people were exaggerating on how much better high quality bulbs like ATI were until I switched. Same went for the fixtures. Once you actually switch you will never go back. Thats how all equipment in this hoppy is i've found. When starting I bought enough cheap equipment and replacements to that cheap equipment to more than pay for the high quality equipment that I have now. Don't skimp on your light, bulbs or your skimmer. Just start off with the good quality and it will save you money in the long run. ------------- Indefinite hiatus from sw aquariums. Once I have my glorious return I'll set back up the following. 50 Gallon rimless cube. 180 Gallons mixed reef paradise |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 9:46am
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For the most part I never buy the cheapest stuff. I have seen cheap skimmers and pumps and would never suggest those. But cheap lights have worked for me. Edit- I guess I have suggested cheaper stuff to others because it can be the difference between having a reef tank and a fish only. Also, I spent more on a light that I liked less than the aquatraders lights. Cost doesn't equal quality. |
Posted By: Turbostud653
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 11:08am
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Well you could be like adam and get the Ebay special from Hong Kong lol. You can check out http://www.uvlco.com/index.html they have some good bulbs as well. ------------- Here is what a customer said while on hold Oh my gosh! Did you open the door? I told you not to open the door. Dre is in here completely naked and he's got freak'n Macaroni and Cheese in his hands. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 2:32pm
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-4-ft-T5-Aquarium-High-Output-Light-Hood-Marine-Coral-Reef-432W-8x-54W-Lamps-/260879276052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbd9dd814 -
Here is what i ended up buying. where do you guys recommend buying ATI bulbs? so far the cheapsest i have found is Amazon for $20/bulb
Also right now i have my light sitting on top of the aquarium lid which is about 14" above the water. will the light penetrate deep enough into the water, or should i lower it some?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-4-ft-T5-Aquarium-High-Output-Light-Hood-Marine-Coral-Reef-432W-8x-54W-Lamps-/260879276052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbd9dd814
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 6:39pm
| also do i need to acclimate this light to my aquarium? if so how many hours should I have it on each day? |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: October 27 2011 at 10:53pm
| bump |
Posted By: kody72
Date Posted: October 28 2011 at 12:47am
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If your hanging it you can move it down slowly over a month. If its going in a canopy you can just layer window screen and remove a sheet every week for a month. I run my dusk/dawn 10hrs and 7hrs one the day lights. Where you got 4 plugs you could turn one every 30-45mins for better dusk/dawn effect. I wish my fixture had more plugs to get this effect. ------------- http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60612&title=kody72-fishroom" rel="nofollow - KODY72 FISHROOM BUILD 281g DT 187g Rimless Frag ATI PM lighting SRO DSCR-300ext 8013908179 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 28 2011 at 10:27am
Reefgeek if you want to use the internet. ReefOn if you want to keep your money local. I would run 5 ATI Blue Plus, 2 ATI Purple Plus and 1 GE 6500k for 8 bulbs. You will want the light closer than that as well. 6-8" is where you will want it. |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: October 28 2011 at 10:29am
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If the unit has a splash guard. remove it. You are trapping in heat and killing the bulbs. Also you will need an external fan blowing on the fixture to help cool things down.
Unfortunately with no cooling, you will need to replace bulbs about every 6-7 months. Using an external fan can push that out to about 9 months. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 01 2011 at 2:10pm
well today as i was hanging the light from on the canopy the one side slipped, and fell in the water all the bulbs work, however only 5 of 8 fixures work.. so now my new question is, what is the best bang for the buck t5 8 bulb fixure i can get? i can see how one bulb can be better than the next, but wouldn't all fixures be created equal???
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 01 2011 at 2:25pm
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8 bulb Tek and NO, not all fixtures are created equal. They aren't even close.
There are 4 factors to a good T5 setup. If one of them is lacking, performance will drop big time. 1) Good reflectors 1) Good bulbs 1) Proper ballasts 1) Proper cooling Yes, they are all #1 for a reason. They are all equally as important as the next. Cheap fixtures have crappy ballasts, bulbs, reflectors and cooling. That is why they are cheap. The cost of goods is cheaper because the materials are cheaper. Cheaper material means low performance. Again, a Tek is the absolute minimum I would be looking at for your tank. If you want to save a little money, get a 6 bulb unit. You will just have to be careful where you place the light demanding corals. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 01 2011 at 3:15pm
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I kinda want to stay away from Tek after i read Laird's comment. Is the one i have junk or decent? may also consider just buying another one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-4-ft-T5-Aquarium-High-Output-Light-Hood-Marine-Coral-Reef-432W-8x-54W-Lamps-/250922039667?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D260879276052%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3895441970944865316 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/48-4-ft-T5-Aquarium-High-Output-Light-Hood-Marine-Coral-Reef-432W-8x-54W-Lamps-/250922039667?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D260879276052%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3895441970944865316
my budget is under $200 for a fixure. should i buy a decent 8bulb fixure? or a more quality 2/4bulb fixure?
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 03 2011 at 8:04pm
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very tempted to buy this.
Unless i can score a used one somewhere, does anyone know where i can get a used ATI fixure?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-48-6x54w-T5-SUNPOWER-Live-Coral-FREE-SHIPPING-/370522973318?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5644e3e486 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-48-6x54w-T5-SUNPOWER-Live-Coral-FREE-SHIPPING-/370522973318?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5644e3e486
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Posted By: P.Kapp
Date Posted: November 03 2011 at 8:10pm
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ATI is a nice fixture. Thats what I have, and its been great. I would get in touch with one of the vendors we have in the club. A lot of the time they have saved me a lot of money on things like this ------------- Preston Kapp 210 Gal Reef |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 03 2011 at 11:08pm
| cool thanks. Where is the vendor section? |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 4:05pm
just bought one of these from a member on here Panorama 23.5"
going to buy a few more stunner strips, and down the road get a ATI 48' 2bulb fixure as well.
http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/led-light-fixture/panorama-led-fixtures-wall-mount-and-pendant.html - http://www.ecoxotic.com/aquarium-led-lights/led-light-fixture/panorama-led-fixtures-wall-mount-and-pendant.html ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 04 2011 at 4:46pm
ATI doesn't make a 2 bulb fixture. That LED light will light up about 30-34" of your tank. I would get another 24" Ecoxotic fixture in the future. The one you bought has been discontinued but the new model will be out here in the next week or so. |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 07 2011 at 12:28am
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i actually took apart my cheap eBay light and cleaned it really good, i got 6 of 8 lights working, and i'm just going to buy one new ballast to get it to work again. I decided im just gonna do fish only, with some zoas, and that's it for the 120g. I'm gonna put my 36g back together, and do a reef tank, and use the Panorama on that.
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 2:54pm
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Just wanted to add that $500 purchase for that Panorama was way out of my budget, and kind of regretted making such an expensive compulsive buy. But i finally got around to hanging it up today, and i must say it was worth every penny, i thought the Led wouldn't be as bright. and would need added lights to make the tank brighter, man i was wrong, this thing is easily twice as bright as my 8blub T5 can't imagine this tank with two of these things! i'm gonna start saving for another one:) i will take pics of the T5 8 bulb. v.s. the the Ecoxotic Panorama LED if anyone is intertested in seeing the difference. GREAT BUY!!------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: lskurys
Date Posted: November 08 2011 at 3:01pm
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I would love to see some pics. ------------- 220g , large elite aquatics sump. 3 Radion Pro Gen 3 lights 3 Mp 40's |
Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 09 2011 at 7:13pm
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I'll post some pics in a bit:)
the light is very bright however it is only a 23" light. so the ends of the tank could use some more light. so i'm going to ad a 48"T5 budget is $150 or less. I've done some searching and have narrowed it down to 4 lights.
they all have individual reflectors, and i will be using ATI bulbs, so basically i just want the one that will stay the coolest, and so that i can get a bit more life out of the bulb. And one with a good ballast. i heard Oddysea ballast put out 20%less? Help me decide which one will stay coolest out of these 4 thanks!
http://www.marineandreef.com/AquaticLife_48_inch_T5_HO_Lamp_Fixture_Marine_p/ral20141.htm - http://www.marineandreef.com/AquaticLife_48_inch_T5_HO_Lamp_Fixture_Marine_p/ral20141.htm
http://www.marineandreef.com/Nova_Extreme_T5_Aquarium_Lighting_Current_USA_p/rcu01126.htm - Current USA Nova Extreme T5 X2 Aquarium Lighting Fixture, 2X54 Watt, 48 inch http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=300582587318 - 48" 216W T5 HO Aquarium Light Hood Coral Reef w/ Timer | eBay
http://www.aquatraders.com/48-inch-3x54W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Digi-Timer-Fixture-p/52315.htm - Odyssea T5 Aquarium Lighting
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Posted By: herrera
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 6:37pm
would love some help here, so i can get this light on it's way ------------- 125g Aggressive tank SWC-Xtreme cone prtein skimmer 40g Sump ------------------------------ 16g Innovative Marine Reef AI led 75W |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 6:46pm
| Aquatic life and current are the only two worth it. Avoid ebay and avoid odyssea. |
Posted By: phinfan
Date Posted: November 10 2011 at 6:56pm
love the bump
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