On a sunny winter day, the heater doesn't turn on at all. I just went out there and the thermostat reading was 82.3. It is not uncommon for it to reach 90+ on a sunny day with temps in the 40s. Winter will be no problem controlling the water temp. If its cold, the heater turns on. If it gets hot, the ventilation fans turn on bringing in cool air.

Keeping the water cool in the summer will be the tricky part. Some options I have...

chiller (expensive to buy and expensive to run)

geothermal cooling loop. (cheap but a PITA to setup)

sunken 55gallon barrels (cheap and fairly effective)

air conditioner (expensive to run)

swamp cooler (fairly cheap to buy and run)

Increase water volume (space consuming but fairly cheap and effective)

Hi, I cultivate hard to find marine macro algea, sea grasses ect.

prices range from $1-$10 depending on rarity ect

let me know if your interested

Something else you might consider for cooling during the summer...

Bring all the sprinkler water for your lawn through your greenhouse first and use it to help cool your tank.  Maybe put a coil of tubing into the dug-out sump that the water going to lawn can flow through?  You could set up a controller to start the sprinklers when the tank water gets above a certain temperature. 

A very special thanks to Chris (chrisslc) again for his help. Heres what we did today.

I have had this thought that if I ever really get into this hobby like some of you, and if I have the money. I would like to build a huge tank something in the 300 to 500 gal range maybe bigger. On that tank I would have a refugium pond that would stretch out on the floor in front of the tank. This pond would be a great place for me to keep salt water plants and even Halloween crabs.

You ever think about adding a small pond to your new setup? Something that would allow for crabs to walk onto land. 

Chris thats an interesting idea. Where could I get holloween crabs? They would do ok in saltwater, right? I still have about 50 square feet of space I can use for whatever.

Thanks Corwando. The foundation was a pain, but its good knowing the tank is on stable ground.

I have seen the crabs at fish 4 U. I think the crab in Skyetone's picture is of one. They don't do too well in fresh water, since they are salt water crabs.

If you do something like that I will have to come and check it out. I could even help you out if you needed some help.

I am liking the idea more and more. I think I do want to try it. I'll just need to decide how i'll do it.

So if I had a pond how would I connect it to the system without the water level changing? I would only want the sump water level to decrease.

Would the easiest way be to add an auto top-off system for both the sump and the pond?

Ok, so ive been trying to find info on the halloween crab and I find very little. The website I found said they are from Costa Rica and live in freshwater rivers. I also found info on halloween hermit crabs which are marine but do not exit the water.

halloween crab

http://easyinsects.co.uk/landcrabs/halloween-crabs/ - http://easyinsects.co.uk/landcrabs/halloween-crabs/

halloween hermit crab

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=23&pCatId=1639&js_enabled=0 - http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=2 3&pCatId=1639&js_enabled=0

the one in the first link is the more common of the two. All land crabs are brackish. They all live by the sea. My pic in particular is an asian land crab. there are thyland crabs and chris just had some HUGE red land crabs. May still be there. Very heardy scavengers. But not all that fish friendly.

If you built a pond, as a sump, you could cordon off one area with a gate of sorts and have a return pump be installed there back to the main tank. Have the main tank flow into the pond as the overflow. Easy. Just like every other system here, but a pont as a sump tank......

As long as the pond/refugium is higher then the sump you should be able to have it stay at a constant level. Just like the huge multi level systems at bird world and the aquarium. Water could flow from main tank - pond/refugium - sump this would require only one pump. You could also have it setup with the main tank to sump, and pond/refugium to sump but this would require two pumps. You would have to that the pond/refugium be higher then the sump in order to have the pond stay full.

You could also do something like Skyetone said and just use the pond as the sump. I know that my sump has a refugium in it that always stays full. Its only my pump side of the sump that water lowers in. I'm sure its that same way with 90% of the peoples sumps on this board.

I find what you are doing fasinating.  If you ever need any help, give me a call.

Jody Oliverson

Make the sump your pond!  (you wont need a skimmer with heavy algea growth --- if that growth is maintained and pieces that go sexual are removed)

currently my 20 gal fuge is the sole filter of my 125 (the skimmer has been curing LR for several weeks)

and my nitrates are still zero

I think a saltwater pond could be made really cool using regular pvc pond liner and agrocrete rocks for the sides with some additional sead rock.... think of the mangroves you could grow!!!

This pond would serve as your sump, your fuge, your frag growout area ect ect.

Hey i would really like to come check this setup out.... maybe Ill bring some macro ...hint ..hint

Dan

What about instead of a pond, you had a tide pool?

I really like this idea Suzy. So what characteristics would make it a tide pool?

Oooh Oooh Oooh, if you want a tide pool talk to me.  I once had to design an alternating tide pool system for a public aquarium.  Basically take two tanks (like lets say two 55 gals) and have them alternate every 7 hours of one at high tide and one at low tide.  This can be done with tanks side by side, or one above another.  I think side by side is easier.

If you buy the equipment, I'll come over and make it for/with you.

Adam

You bet.  March 10th is my next free out of the lab day.  So after that day we should be good.  I'll give you some plans and you can decide if you think it is worth doing.

Adam

Dan, thats a good point on the skimmer. The whole 180 will be planted with sea grasses and macroalgaes, plus i'll have the 50 gallon mangrove tank. I bet i'll be adding nutrients. Im going to use a DSB of utah sand so i'll probably need to use some fertilizer spikes or something to get it going.  Im already preparing for the algae bloom that will follow 

Instead of fertilizer (scary) how about a hefty fish load???

Ive found that my macro stops growing or grows very slowly when I am stingy with the feeding and fish load.

As a macro connoisseur this is somewhat unacceptable. I think macro algae is underrated in its nutrient removing capability's, and i think most refugiums are not properly lit or designed to accommodate aggressive growth.

I just removed 2-3 pounds of macro today (its at fish for you now) and I attribute this to my skimmer being on another tank. I was able to buy some nice stuff from FISH FOR YOU with the credit. My normal harvest would be less then half of this.

One point I wanted you to realize with your algae intensive setup is: Algae must be harvested regularly ( which can mean profits) and Algae must be fed (higher then normal bio-load)

IMO the nutrient removal of macro algae is simply amazing... when well lit and free from predation....

Hey Dan, if you don't mind me asking, how much store credit did you get for your macros.I have tons of chaetos I have to harvest, tryed to give them away free but no body wants them so I can as well just get some thing out of this fast growing thing.

Dude its ok. Once you find a decent chick theres no need to go out on a fri night waste money and do something stupid... Id rather get my backscratched while watching my tank anyday...

I just had another idea....

settling ....  You dug out a hole. filled it with concrete, then plan to put between 800-1000lbs on top of it. Did you compact the dirt at all before the concrete? Look at most wooden fences. Not square... No big deal, but with a fish tank that could get ugly....

Chris knows what he's doing and im not expecting any problems. The stand is solidly built and could probably hold twice the weight it needs to (1500-2000lbs)

A big thanks to Kellie (kethomps). I just picked up the aquarium from her and its perfect. She also has an AMAZING 125 gallon reef with some beautiful tangs. I don't even remember their names. I think one was an "orange shoulder" or something like that. Thanks Kellie.

Another big thanks to Eric at Marine Aquatics. He drilled my tank for a great price. For anyone that hasn't seen his store, it is incredible. I have never seen tanks kept up so well. You can really tell that he cares about his livestock. Everything was clean and healthy. If you haven't been to his beautiful store, you're missing out...seriously.

Chris came over again and we finished the stand and moved the tank in.

Nothing smells better than wet cedar chips and freshly made salt water. mmmm... 

Heres the drain/overflow Eric helped me with...

And the sump

Thanks Shane

I added some sand which made the water cloudy, but everything is doing great. I added two yellow-tail damsels, a cardinal, and a bunch of coral and live rock.

The murkiness gives it an eerie look with the sun shining through it...kind of cool

Here is my lighting setup...

Here are some of the corals in the tank. There is a frogspawn and a montipora digitata in this picture. The montipora has fully expanded its polyps and the frogspawn is about halfway there. Sorry for the bad picture. It is actually a ton brighter than the picture leads you to believe.

Hi Adam,

Your setup looks quite interesting and if you make it to the meeting I would like to talk to you more about it, especially the greenhouse itself. If you make it to the meeting could you bring some mangroves that I could purchase from you? 

Thanks Mark. I like to say that I have a 390,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 watt bulb.

L_Sun = 4 d²f = 4 (1.50x10¹¹ m)² 1370 w/m²

= 3.9x10²⁶ watts

But then again, i do keep it about 149,597,870.691 kilometers above the water surface.

Jody, i'll try to be at the meeting tonight.

Many of the corals will not expand their polyps like this montipora. I have added a shade cloth to help acclimate them better to the new, brighter light.

I am the biggest idiot ever!!! I really cannot believe my stupidity on this one. Since ive put the corals in, many haven't seemed to be doing well. They are alive but no polyp extension. The water was good, or so I thought. I had forgot to test perhaps the most important thing...the salinity. I had just added the recommended amount of instant ocean amount like i do with all my water changes. Don't ask me why i didn't test it before putting the fish and corals in, thats where my stupidity comes in. So I tested it last night with a refractometer and the reading was.... 1.032!!!  I really dont understand how that could be!! With a little investigation I determined my system probably doesn't hold 280 gallons as I thought but maybe about 250 gallons.

I guess the good thing is that 90% of the corals are still alive but just not too happy. The thing that has got me wondering is how well a lot of the stuff is doing. The BTA is looking great has has been fully expanded since it was put in the water. The fish look and act normal. And the algae has never grown better. I had a softball size piece of chaeto and it has grown into enough to fill a 10 gallon tank.

The salinity is now at 1.025 and the polyps on most of the corals are starting to extend. I think the only losses will be a couple small acro frags and some montipora digitata. Everything else looks good. I got off lucky this time i guess.

Apparently you have been doing this a while.  A novice would never have made that mistake.  They would have tested the water 20 times by now.

I'm glad you didn't loose much.  My mother lost quite a few fish in her nano before we discovered the Hydrometer she was using wasn't reading correctly.  But she also found that most of the corals seemed to do extremely well in Hypo-salinity. (Did I use the right word. I can never remember hyper and hypo. Anyway with the salinity too high.)

I've been following this tread since the beginning and would love to come see your setup after tax season is over.  Sounds like a fun project.

I agree will. I think the best part is I invested in a refractometer and haven't used it too much since i bought it. It sure is nice to get an accurate reading though. I am planning on using it more frequently now .

Here are some new pictures for anyone still following this thread

The chaeto is growing like mad!! You know its growing well when its covered in oxygen bubbles

Thanks to Mark, I was able to get enough sand to do a 6-7" DSB. Thanks Mark

Still a little cloudy but that Utah sand sure looks nice.

wow .. I have been quietly following your thread! fantastic job! i cant say how cool this is. i'm incredibly impressed! congrats on a fantastic job!  you will be on the reef tour this year right? i'm there!

what is the current state of the refugium and/or sump? pics? 

Thanks Corey

The refugium isn't setup yet, but the plan is to have 200+ mangroves with a DSB and maybe a couple fish or inverts (but i guess it wouldn't be a refugium then, huh?)

Here are some pics of the sump. Most of my SPS are at the bottom patiently waiting. Theres also a bunch of rock rubble and some chaetomorpha. I recently added some eggcrate so I could use it for frags or whatever.

Also in the picture is a ficus tree that loves to drop leaves into the water.  Luckily the leaves float and they are easy to pick out.

Reef Tour? Well maybe. I guess I better get those seagrasses going so I have something to show. But anyone is welcome to come over anytime. You just need to bring me macroalgae frags  Ok, only if you want

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing and had to go measure it again. The deepest it gets is 7" but the average is about 6.5" I did it that deep since im told that is what seagrasses need.

The low spot? Thats was my attempt to be creative in my aquascaping. Its a little cave.

So how do I get some of your Giant Feather Caulerpa? Where are you located?

FISHMAN Dan wrote: Hi, I cultivate hard to find marine macro algea, sea grasses ect. prices range from $1-$10 depending on rarity ect let me know if your interested

Rob, do you have a carnivorous plant tank? If you do, you need to post some pics!!

Ive had a couple people wanting some pictures of the corals. I took these pictures at sunset so they are a little yellow.

The polyps on the montiporas have really expanded in the last week. I took off the shade cloth so they are getting direct sun.

Nick, heres some more pictures for you.  

Im really surprised how well the anemones do in this tank. Ive always been told how hard they are to keep but these things have done well since the beginning. I might even have to try another ritteri or carpet.

Here are some very nice zoanthids I got from Chris(slc).

Lol, yeah the MCAT is on April 16 !!! If you ever spent time in the PACU, im sure we saw each other.

Ya I have one question for you, how did you manage to get into the UofU med school?!? I may actually have a bunch more questions for you when the MCAT is over. The application process is completely foreign to me

I took some more pictures at sunset. It definately gives the aquarium a color not seen in most reef tanks. The colors of the corals don't really come out but still very pretty.

I was having troubles with hair algae, but 5 mexican turbo snails are clearing that up pretty quick.

I also added about 30ml of micro algae grow to the tank to help with my low nutrient problem. I was also thinking about adding 20-30 chromis to help with this as well. No matter what I do, the nitrates just wont stay that far above zero.

Here are a couple of pictures of a zoathid colony under two types of light to show how natural sun effects coral color.

This first picture is taken under a 28watt PC 50/50 bulb which is about 2 feet from the colony.

This second picture shows the same colony in natural sunlight at around 5PM (it is slightly more yellow at this time of day)

I got a bunch of zoanthid frags from Chrisslc and they all seem to love the full sun. Thanks Chris!

Oh That's so sweet  Adam, spending romantic sunsets in your greenhouse with your tank.Cool pics though.

Well, I just got my first gas bill since setting up the tank. All I will say is that i'll have a cold water tank by this fall. I guess it'll give me an excuse to take a roadtrip to Washington and do some collecting.

I added three species of seagrasses (turtle, shoal and manatee). I talked Kris at Fish4U into ordering some. He has all three species, but not sure if he'll be selling any. The turtle grass is in the back and the manatee is in the front.

Here are some in a small indoor tank. It has a lot better lighting for taking pictures. This tank is lit by one 65 watt LOA floodlight (6500k). Im really impressed with it. It is a bit yellow but very bright for 65 watts

And a gulf pipefish

Hey Adam, Just saw the gulf fish this morning at Chris's, that is one cool looking fish.Men you getting my 180g tank pretty filled up.

Just got back from Washington and was able to do a little collecting. Since this system is going to be a cold-water system this fall, I was hoping some of these animals and algae could survive warmer waters for several months.

Here is a small anemone which is doing great. I collected maybe 8-10 anemones and all are open and looking very good.

I got about 8 of these little land crabs to go in the mangrove refugium. They are very active and acclimated great.

Here is the tank with lots of algae. The big one is a cold-water species so im hoping it can survive the summer (i think not though).

There is also a moon snail at the base of the algae in the above pic. It has a black shell and black body.

The water is always murky with phytoplankton growth. It never gets too bad but the water is never crystal clear. I recently bought several filtration devices that I may use to clear the water up.

Fluidized sand filter

Skimmer

Not sure if im going to use this UV sterilizer, but it would sure help with the water clarity.

Water temperature has been farily easy to control so far. The low every night is 72 degrees and the high is about 78 degrees. I have turned the ventilation system off on several warm sunny days to see how it effects the temperature. Greenhouse air temp would rise to 100-110 degrees and water temperature reached 82-84. This gives me optimism on keeping the temperature fairly low during the summer.

A pic I took today. I have left the aquascaping up to the eel. I think its doing a good job

I thought it was going to be hard to keep it cool with it being near 100 degrees and in full sun. Surprisingly, i dont think it got warmer than 83 degrees the whole summer. With a fan blowing on the water, the temperature generally ranged from 74 to 79 degrees daily.  (although I do have water volume working for me)

Between May and Now... well a lot of the pictures in my last may post are from June and July...i just edited them in. I was trying to get seagrass and different macros to grow. Some did really well, others didnt.

You can actually look at the properties of the pictures to see when I uploaded them.

BTW Mark, are there still those Tessalata eels at MSM?

Just for comparison.... Night and Day

Can I come again and take some pics?

Adam

Sure,