is this stand overkill?
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75726
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Topic: is this stand overkill?
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Subject: is this stand overkill?
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:00am
This is my hybrid design for my upcoming 180g build. Top frame is 2x6 , everything else 2x4 *I plan on building as is and testing to see if i get any deflection without a centerbrace, will add if necessary. |
Replies:
Posted By: twhall
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:03am
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looks like the front will be wide open. |
Posted By: robot.fish
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:30am
| I have a concern of the 2x4 laying flat in the floor. They do not carry as much load that way. I see it deflecting. Unless your positive the floor is completely flat. Over cement. |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:41am
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It will be on a cement floor, and i will ensure its level. Once built im going to place a 150g rubbermaid tote filled with water(and whatever else i find to add weight) on top of it to see if i get any deflection on the front of the stand with no center brace. Both the top and the inside bottom will be covered with plywood, and the sides will be skinned with some nice wood. |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:43am
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^ I agree. Never lay lumber flat like that or it loses it's ability to support. That bottom frame should all be standing up on edge (center braces as well). ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: robot.fish
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:49am
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Yeah. If the cement floor is not 100% level you will have problems. No way to shim the stand as have designed. It will deflet. follow Krazies advice turn the bottom 2x4. It will be much more stable. |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 11:15am
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I wanted them flat to sneak an extra 2 inches of space into the sump area.... dang... okay well i guess ill turn them and redrawn the plans. |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 11:23am
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You can add plywood to the top and bottom of the bottom frame and gain enough strength but that's 1.5" for that so the pay off isn't very good. Your design will work that way but you can only shim at the corners. Shimming in the middle will not do anything but bend the 2x4. Then your sump wouldn't sit flat inside. It just ripples from the shim on. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: robot.fish
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 12:03pm
| Can you just make the stand taller? |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 12:57pm
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Im trying to keep the stand at 30" tall while also keeping as much room under the tank as possible, im only 5ft 7 and if I go to tall I cant reach into the tank without a step ladder. If I turn the 2x4 on the bottom and keep 2x6 up top that gives me 20" height inside the stand... |
Posted By: robot.fish
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 1:00pm
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Where is the tank to be located? I like higher stands easier, to stand to view the tank. |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 1:02pm
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I design all of my stands to be overkill. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 1:26pm
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Have you thought about trying to have a metal stand made? They are a bit stronger and you can use smaller sized dimensions and still have the strength. That might get you what you are looking for. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 2:17pm
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I called around and got prices for steel a few weeks back but im having trouble finding somebody to weld it up. Called a few fab shops and they all want to charge extra for designing it and wouldn't give me a straight answer on price. So yes I have thought about steel stand, just need somebody to fabricate it. |
Posted By: twhall
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 2:39pm
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I have a retired neighbor who welds in his garage for inexpensive. do you live near Kearns / West Valley? |
Posted By: twhall
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 2:48pm
| nvm just noticed you live in Clearfield. |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 2:50pm
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You could also laminate the bottom using two sheets of 1/2 plywood with 1/2 solid wood core strips every 3 inch's or so. if you wanted it stronger you could laminate this to a face frame. This would not deflect at all and could be shimmed any place along the front. When I say laminate you would use glue and mechanical fasteners. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 16 2015 at 10:49pm
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I rarely comment in the build threads, preferring to let people just go on with their mistakes, but this isn't a build thread! Because the purpose of this thread seems to be asking for input before building  , rather than a pat on the back (for showing mistakes already built ), I'm feeling like adding my 2 cents tonight.  I'm 6'1" and I always use a step ladder to help me reach down to the sand of the 180's I work on. Having the entire front of the stand built to be opened with large doors or removable face is ideally perfect.  20" in the stand is plenty. Sumps have become to darn over-built and too tall. It makes them impossible to work with. Having seen and worked in 100's of sumps, for this setup I recommend using a sump that is only ~12" tall, ~18" wide and 60-66" long, dependent on whether the return pump is external or internal. Simple sumps work awesome. KISS (look it up). Make the sump with no more than 1 baffle. Make the Refugium portion large and the skimmer section just large enough to hold the drain pipe, the Skimmer, a heater and the return pump(or screened bulkhead to the external return pump. Bubbles draining into this section can be sucked up by the skimmer pump and a foam sleeve can be used to to stop skimmer micro-bubbles. This section is where a herbie style drain is a real advantage. A DIY screen can be fabricated to completely avoid the risk of Snails or other items fouling the gate valve. Oh, and no filter socks. To me they are a waste of time and only capture stuff that should be food for the bugs we want growing in the refugium. I'd love to show you a classic 180 gal that has been on the Reef Tour every year since around 1999. It's Ross Bagshaw's tank in North Salt Lake. I might have a pic or two around here somewhere.  I agree that boards should always be placed to provide as much vertical support as possible. The two 2x6's across the top front of the stand are perfect support to provide full front access to the Sump/Refugium. The stand could also be built without a bottom brace across the front. Then set the sump on a simple loose plywood or stryrofoam sheet to insulate it from the cold cement. No worries about stability because a single sheet of plywood fastened across the entire back and at least one side will sufficiently stabilize the stand. This is where I interject my opinion; over-building gives way to building smart - to providing just what is needed. The larger the sand bed with Macroalgae growing over the top of it, the better will be the biofiltration capacity. Use just enough LR in the Refugium to hold the Chaeto in place after harvesting. Macroalgae stops bubbles so no need for a double baffle. LR has way less biofiltration capacity than the same volume of LS. Macroalgae is practically immediate in it's pollution processing, so the more Macro in a large Refugium the better. Assuming this is a dual overflow, have one overflow drain into the Refugium and the other drain into the skimmer section. For quiet operation use either my Modified Durso (not patented, but it should be ) or use a Herbie style overflow/drain arrangement.There you have it, my 2 cents. Aloha
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 4:44am
attempt two....
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Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 6:44am
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II think that will work better. I would move the two blue boards in the base to the other side of the other side of the vertical supports on the back of the stand so there isn't quite as big a space between them in the center of the base. Other than that I think you will be much happier with this design ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 7:02am
| I actually had an additional blue brace in the middle when I started laying it out on google sketchup, but I removed it for the upright beam in the center so it could go all the way from tank to floor. I will have them on the inside of the vertical (like on top) instead of outside the vertical. |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 7:04am
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The yellow 2x4s are unnecessary unless you are leaving this all open. Even with no skin if you use proper joinery techniques on the rest of the stand they are not needed and are just taking up space in the bottom. Are you skinning the stand? How you skin the stand can and should provide the majority of your strength. You could easily build a bulletproof stand without any 2x4 or 2x6. If a box built out of plywood or solid wood. So many people build stands like they are building a bench (no skin on a bench). This really is not necessary unless you are building it with all removable skin or no shin. Look at a couple of professorially built wood stands. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 7:46am
I think you're there. Build it and they will grow. :) ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
1stupidpunk wrote:Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 12:14pm
I have very basic knowledge of carpentry (but im an expert at google and youtube) and will rely on the stand to carry the weight of the tank. I do plan on skinning the stand and adding doors to the front. |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: April 18 2015 at 1:21pm
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Go it, no cabinet making experience. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |