I have seen the excitement from many people on this board annd from members about the usage on the LBTR and the Oolitic sand but I want to here first hand from you all what your thoughts are about using this stuff. What success and/or troubles you have seen with it!  The reason I am wondering is because of some opinions expressed by workers from various LFS. They have told me, and other people that I know not use any of it because it could be contaminated or contain ash. What do you all think?

Thanks

Justin

    Ive had oolitic sand I collected in my tank for 2 years now with no problems,

but the friend I collected the sand with didnt clean his as well as I did and he had problems

I love it though,it looks great in a reef tank!

My tank is 50% LBTR.  You really have to know what you are looking for in order to tell the difference between it and the live rock I got from the LFS.  I really like it.

I haven't used the oolitic sand but I wished that I knew about it before I bought the the expensive live sand.

Greatest thing about LBTR and oolitic sand is that it is free, which means you can spend the savings on the fun stuff (coral!!) and you can get a nice selection of pieces to aquascape your tank with (the stuff breaks easily to make just about any shape).  

I've been using it in my tanks and have set up just as many friends tanks with both. It's been at least four years now. There are literally hundreds of tanks in Utah with anywhere from a few pieces to 100%. In a good environment it looks like Ocean LR within a year. When prepared properly there are absolutely NO PROBLEMS with it. The preparation we must do to this sand and rock is no different than CaribSea does to their stuff behind the scenes before we see it in bags at the LFS.

And speaking of LFS, those owners and employees (except for me) have never used it so how can they be relied upon for accurate advice regarding it?

The sand must be screened (window screen) to remove sticks, rocks and bullet shells and rinsed in freshwater until the rinsewater turns from brown to light gray. The rock must be blasted clean with a high pressure wash like at the car wash when the handle is squeezed. (Use the Rinse setting).

If you want to see it dry unprepared and then how it looks after a year, undistinguishable from other LR feel free to call and come visit me. My phone number is below.

Hi Justin,

I use both the Utah rock and the oolitic sand in my 75 gal. setup. I have not had any problems and no (you heard it right), no hair algae or any other problems that I have heard other people talk about. In fact, the Utah rock has more corline (sp) algae on it now and looks better than the rest of the so-called "live rock" I payed big bucks for in the local reef stores!

I think the key is cleaning the rock well. I took the Utah rock to the car wash and blasted it 2 different times with just clean (not recylcled) water. The oolitic sand was screened before I washed it to get out the dirt clods, rocks, wood, etc. Then it was washed real well. When I added it to my tank I also put it some small gravel from the pet store as well as some live sand from several other tanks. No problems 1 year later!

My tank is filled with a variety of inverts, soft and hard coral, as well as a few fish. Everyone is happy and growing fast. No outbreakes of disease, diatoms, algae, high phosphate readings, or unexpected fish/coral/invert deaths either.

Certainally use caution in all you do, and it does not matter if it is advise from the local pet store or if you are trying something new on your own like using oolitic sand. However I have not had any problems with the Utah sand or rock.

Jody

flashmc wrote: Question: If LBTR can be contaminated, can't we say the same about other live rock. Can these LFS employees guarantee that live rock purchased from them be completely free from contaminates, or detrimental hitchhikers? I doubt it, considering the amount of waste that is pumped into our oceans.

It really annoy's me when I hear my LFS telling customers that useing either is a terrible idea. My 125 has 60lbs of Utah rock and a good 75lbs od Utah sand. Both of these I personally collected. I dont have any problems that I can contribute to the use of these items.

The nice thing about Utah rock other than its free is the fact that there are no mantis shrimp or rock crabs on it.

Holdencraft 33 wrote: The nice thing about Utah rock other than its free is the fact that there are no mantis shrimp or rock crabs on it.

You said it!  Both times I have set up my tank I have had such problems with the "live rock". First time it was a mantis shrimp, the 2nd time it was rock crabs. By the way....Other than a few bacteria I think the only live things on the rock I bought at the store was the shrimp or the rock crabs!

Jody wrote: Other than a few bacteria I think the only live things on the rock I bought at the store was the shrimp or the rock crabs!

No doubt!!!

Am I the only person who prefers live rock?

Cost is the only reason I would use LBTR.

I really appreciate all of the input from all of you! I guess it is a gamble to use it but it is free!!! I think what Robert(FlashMC) wrote is true they can say that the storwbought stuff is safe but how do we the consumer know that to be fact?

 I was actually reading on a website while doing some research on this subject that some comercial subtrates (aragonite) is dry mined somewhere outside the us and is crushed to specific size and the shipped to different companies to be distributed. I dont know how much of that is fact but how do they know that it isnt coming out of contaminated ground somewhere below a nuclear facility in new dehli or somewhere 

jfinch wrote: Am I the only person who prefers live rock? Cost is the only reason I would use LBTR.

I agree.

Adam

"Kicka pooka maka wah wahini are the words I long to hear"

Waka waka nooky likey waka waka nooky licka, would you like a lei?

Wow, I guess that nobody uses live rock anymore, I collected some LBTR almost 10 years ago only to throw it out because I could not find any info on it, Now everyone uses it. I THINK that live rock is better than LBTR, I mean from a simple point of view it was grown in the ocean how can it not be better for our "mini oceans"? than rock we get from the desert? if you cure it right and examine it before it goes in your tank you won't have a problem with it, I mean really if both were free what would you use?

Jon, where is the results from that chemical tests you ran on the sand I gave you? I remember that the utah oolitic had considerabley less calciums etc, in it. Not to say that oolitic is bad but is it the best?

This is my point of view....Would I use utah rock? Sure if I needed to stock a tank with more rock than I could afford in live rock...but I sure would put in some live rock to get all the stuff that has been growing on it for the past 10,000 years.  

Jon- you're getting my heart pumping (and waka waka nuka nuka to you too).

PC- live rock is better, but when setting up a big tank the cost of lbtr really is appealing.  Sand analysis here (it was reprinted and reformated following the original publication)...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/2/short - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/2/short

Adam

Adam Blundell wrote: Jon- you're getting my heart pumping (and waka waka nuka nuka to you too). PC- live rock is better, but when setting up a big tank the cost of lbtr really is appealing.  Sand analysis here (it was reprinted and reformated following the original publication)... http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/2/short - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/2/short Adam

Ah yes, So it is closer than I remember. I agree about how the cost is a huge factor in setting up a new aquarium, Like I said in my last paragraph, I would use it if I had/needed to.

Well, I am off to go cherry picking in LA...See ya all on saturday..

coche wrote: I guess it is a gamble to use it...

LBTR is NOT a gamble. It is made of a mineral called aragonite that was formed in Lake Bonneville, an ocean that existed here 10,000 years ago. LR from the present ocean is also aragonite. Aragonite is composed of Calcium Carbonate. Calcium Carbonate is the best thing to have in the reef aquarium. It releases Calcium and Alkalinity into the water. These two components are the two most important water parameters of a reef aquarium.

THERE IS NO RISK TO USING LBTR. If prepared properly, it starts out almost sterile, with no living thing on it, but life colonizes on to it quickly. This life comes from from the aquarium in which it is placed. All that is needed is just one "seed" piece of good LR from the ocean or another aquarium. Of course, the more "seed" the better the LBTR will colonize.

On the other hand, ocean collected LR can contain what we call "hitchhikers." Bad hitchhikers are Rock Crabs and Mantis Shrimp living in holes in the LR. Rock Crabs and Mantis Shrimp are not good for the typical reef aquarium. They prey on (kill & eat) snails, hermit crabs, fish and coral.

Hobbyists that have questions about LBTR would do well to see for themselves how LBTR becomes practically indistiguishable from ocean collected LR.

[quote=coche]...mined somewhere outside the us and is crushed to specific size and the shipped to different companies to be distributed. [/QUOTE]

CaribSea has the rights to mine it at their location in the Carribean. (somewhere outside the US.) They sort, size and clean it according to their customers requirements and then place it in bags that are distributed to the LFS. CaribSea delivers a quality product. I don't see any problem with that.

Well for what all of you have said it is plain to see that pretty much the end product is the same thing and with a little precaution taken the end result is the same accept for that the local stuff is a heack of alot cheaper. Therefore I see no reason not to take advantage of our natural resourses and use it. I think as Mark stated though it would be quite benificial to throw in some uncured pieces to ad a little life and diversity into the tank also!!

Thank you all for yout input it is amazing to me what a wealth of knowledge the people in this club have! You guys and gals rock!

Just a side note I hade the opportunity to meet Mark for the first time a couple of weeks ago at MSM. It was a pleasure to meet him and share in his passion for this hobby, his excitement and knowledge are definately countagious!! 

Thank You

Justin Carr