xiena
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: SPS
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions SPS corals.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=898
Printed Date: December 09 2025 at 2:21pm
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Topic: xiena
Posted By: peregrinus
Subject: xiena
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 9:52am
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this may have been covered here but i could not find anything on it. my xiena was doing fine till sunday. i did a 10 gal water change(RO salt) and sucked the gravel. it started turning white and getting smaller every day there is less there. all the other corals seem to be doing fine. anyone have any ideas? does xiena go sexual? if what causes it to do that?
thanxs. Brian |
Replies:
Posted By: rfoote
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 10:19am
| I think xenia is known to crash and come back w/out a lot of explanation. From what I understand it actually does this in the wild as well. I've also heard that it can't be proven, but I swear mine loves it when I does Iodine. |
Posted By: peregrinus
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 10:30am
| i dose iodine to the specs maybe i'll try doseing again. see if that will stop the decline? |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 1:25pm
| For several year I had xenia growing like crazy in my tank. I was literally flushing the stuff down the toilet each month to control it. Suddenly - without a signs and without any noticable changes to any other corals, the xenia began receding. After about two months all the xenia has died. I was pretty happy for a while. I tried another small cutting after several months with the same results. Slowly receding and ultimately dieing. I still have no idea what caused the problem. I just don't keep xenia. ??? |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 4:40pm
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Shane, are you talking about the normal run-of-the-mill "silver tip" xenia? or are talking about "pom pom" too? I've seen pom pom in old tanks that still looks good, but the only old/established tank I've personally seen that has good looking silver tip is the older display tank at Aquatica in Orem. I know the tank is sumpless, no skimmer and macro algae free (if I recall corectly). I'll have to ask Shawn what he thinks the secret is next time I'm in there. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: SSpargur
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 7:25pm
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How many months or years are we defining a system as established? Just curious. ------------- Sean Spargur West Valley, UT |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 7:58pm
See the article "Lessons of Xenia" in the June 2000 issue of the Sea Star Online (look to the left in the blue buttons) Pretty good writing IMHO  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: KeoDog
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 8:25pm
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Jon, I think that tank you are talking about at Aquatica has an Ecosystem filter hanging on the back of it. ------------- Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT) 300g reef "A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud." Ayn Rand |
Posted By: imaexpat2
Date Posted: August 19 2003 at 8:30pm
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Couldnt find the site that Mark was mentioning, guess the computer is smarter than I am. I have had Bali Xenia for a while now. I havent experienced the massive crashes that I have herd others talk about, but I will share a bit of my experience with you on these. My Xenia is quick to let me know when I behind on Iodine doseing! It seems to do well as long as I dose it with 2 mils every other day in a 125 gallon Reef Tank that I have. If I go more than 4 days or so, it starts looking pretty pathetic on me. Any more than that amount and my Starburst Polyps start "revolting" on me. Mark, If you could please help the "handicapped" and tell me where to look for that article or e-mail me the link...I would be willing to graval at your feet, well-maybe I wouldnt go quiet that far but...It would definitly be appreciated! ------------- 300 gal. Frag System 300 gal. Live Rock Vat 240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 75 gal. Softies only Tank 65 gal. LPS/Softies 24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: August 20 2003 at 12:25pm
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jfinch,
My xenia was the normal brown w/silver tip. It looked good in my tank, but it gets too big. I have has some pom pom xenia as well, but it never grew with as much vigor as the longbar. Similarly, it appeared to flourish and suddenly crash. Now that you mention it, there may be a correlation to the crash and the macro algae growth in my sump. I'll have to try and remember the timeline of events ... |
Posted By: peiji
Date Posted: August 20 2003 at 12:50pm
| I recently had a huge colony of the silver tip xenia crash in my tank. I read that xenia doesn't tolerate high temps and I know my tank temp got high this summer so I attributed it to that. But, Shane, are you suggesting macro algae may be the cause? |
Posted By: mdawson8931
Date Posted: August 20 2003 at 12:54pm
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Here you go Imaexpat2, The link is www.utahreefs.com/seastar/wmasseastarjn00.pdf.
Its also on the menu on the left under "Sea Star Online" ------------- Mike Layton, Ut. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 20 2003 at 2:22pm
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While you are reading this post, simply look to the far left on this screen. See the blue buttons for all the utahreefs pages? It starts with Home on top then count down 3 more buttons and click! Go to the first Sea Star listed which is June 2000 and you will find the Xenia article.
The WMAS newsletter, the Sea Star, has been published since 1995 when the club formed, but was not done electronically until 2000. Older issues are kept in the club library. It's been a while since a WMAS member volunteered to produce a new issue, probably because we now have this forum.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: imaexpat2
Date Posted: August 21 2003 at 6:07am
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Ahhhh...... I see said the blind man. Thanks Gents! I found it. Seemed to be something I had already read before but its all good. You can never learn too much! ------------- 300 gal. Frag System 300 gal. Live Rock Vat 240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank 75 gal. Softies only Tank 65 gal. LPS/Softies 24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef |
Posted By: utahtaper
Date Posted: August 21 2003 at 6:49am
| I have both silver tipped and red sea in my tank. Both are spreading like a disease. My xenia has had issues from time to time. But usually they don't recede. The fingers just don't extend and pulse rapidly. I asked Sean at Aquatica what he thought it was and he said if there is a water quality issue with the tank the Zenia will show it first. Beings that they are supposedly the easiest thing to grow I have to wonder if there is some truth to that. I have some silver tipped I threw in my sump for fun. The light is very minimal(one single 50w flourescent) and I keep it on 24/7 and it still doesn't affect the xenia. I do beleive in Iodine dosings. |
Posted By: utahtaper
Date Posted: August 21 2003 at 6:54am
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Hey Brian,
Maybe when you sucked the sand you stirred up something toxic to the xenia? |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: August 21 2003 at 9:00am
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peiji -
I do think there is a correlation between the rapid growth of the macro algae in my sump and the decline of the xenia. It may be that the algae consumed the nutrients that the xenia had been using for growth? After this conversation, I checked the algae growth in my sump - it is also declining. One of my RD bulbs is out. Don't know for how long. Maybe I should throw some xenia in now and see what happens ... |
Posted By: peregrinus
Date Posted: August 21 2003 at 8:19pm
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yeah traper thats what i thought but all my test came back fine. my star polps and mushrooms and everything else is fine. all the other polps are opening just fine. still thinking it might have gone sexaul but not sure?
brian |
Posted By: peregrinus
Date Posted: August 22 2003 at 3:59pm
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i think i found the problem my PH has been raising its now at 8.8 or higher my test kit only goes that high. now how do i decrese my PH? anyone know?
thanxs |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 1:10pm
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Do you use any kind of PH Buffer???????
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 9:00pm
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The best way to lower your ph is to either do a water change or maybe leve you lights out alittle longer. ? when are you testing morning or night ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 9:19pm
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If you use a ph buffer you can keep your lights on longer and pretty much make your ph stable untill your main lights turn off which if you have a sump then the sump light will take over...
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 10:53pm
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If you have trouble maintaining levels make sure you are adding magnesium your mag level should be triple you calcium if your mag level is low it will be hard to have good ph and calcium no matter what. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 10:54pm
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also if your ph is to high leaving your lights on will only make it higher. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 11:09pm
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yeah if you dont use ph buffer!!!!!!
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 24 2003 at 11:53pm
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ph buffer will not add magnesium ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 12:05am
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Ph buffer will bring it up or down with out magnesium to 8.3
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Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 12:36am
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right but without proper Magnesium levels you will have to add it much more often. without the same level of sucsess. Magnesium depletion is commonly associated with the use of kalkwasser.
try going here for great salt info http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=57 ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 12:39am
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magnesium ion concentration influences the saturation point for calcium carbonate in solution. In general, the further the magnesium concentration drops from natural seawater levels (1350 ppm), the more difficult it becomes to maintain adequate levels of both calcium and alkalinity. Magnesium also plays an important role in stabilizing pH by interacting with the buffer system of seawater.
hope this helps ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 1:00am
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You are saying it your self in natural seawater are tanks are not natural seawater i would have to say at least 90% of us dont use magnesium i never have and i know you didnt for a very long time and most places that i have seen and read that do coral prop dont use it im sure it has its place but i think for most people wouldnt need it..... i could be wrong.. |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 1:16am
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in my peronal opinion I think that when the kalk recactors came into play the lack of Magnesium is what caused alot of problems I know it did for me. But thanks to good help I have fixed all of my problems and now my tank is better than ever. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 1:40am
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SWEET........WHAT DID YOU DO DIFFRENT? YOU HAVE A KALK REACTOR ?
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 1:57am
no I thought it was my problem so I did a calcium reactor but my problems didn't go away ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 4:11pm
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Scroll said:
Magnesium also plays an important role in stabilizing pH by interacting with the buffer system of seawater. Could you provide more info? Are you saying from an ion pairing standpoint (between Mg and CO3) that there is an effect on carbonate levels great enough to actually increase the pH above 8.8? or is it from some other Mg interaction perspective? I'm curious. FWIW, I would be very concerned if the pH of my tank was 8.8 or over. What I would suggest is water change(s) and a switch to an alkalinity maintance method that results in a lower pH. Stop using kalkwasser or sodium carbonate if you're using either of those additives. Switch to b-ionic or a CaCO3/CO2 reactor system for a balanced addition or baking soda for a nonbalanced addition. And by all means, double check that pH reading. ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 8:24pm
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If you want to get with me Jon I have alot of notes on the subject tooooo many to post but I could save them to a disk and get them to you. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 25 2003 at 8:28pm
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I actually think it would be hard to raise your ph to 8.8 I think there are much more problems than not adding Mag to create such an out of wack level. ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: peregrinus
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 6:59am
| Thanxs everyone for the help. i did use a small amount of kalkwasser water less than a 2 liter for over 100 gals it seams to be stable now. i did water changes for two days 10% each day. does baking soda reduce or incerase PH? |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 7:44am
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IME, baking soda has almost no pH effect (if your pH is around 8.0 - 8.3). Maybe a small decrease in pH initially, but as with every carbonate additive it will eventually (in a day or so) result in a slight increase in pH due to the increase in carbonates. I personally don't recommend using carbonate additions for pH control. Add carbonates to maintain alkalinity. The "type" of carbonate used can be chosen to minimize (or maximize) effects on pH.
I wouldn't think 2 liters of kalkwasser would do that. Was the kalk dripped slowly into the tank or just dumped all at once? How confindent are you that your pH was actually 8.8+? ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 9:23am
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I've been avoiding the forum for a few days , Just kidding. But I went back and looked at the posts here and wondered if we might get some more information from perigrinis regarding other things that have been going on in the tank. Could the high pH also be related to something we havn't thought of yet?
For instance the first thing that comes to my mind is that generally lower ph occurs at night (as scroll commented) and in lower water movement and where the bioload is overloading the filtration capacity, and etc. Is something out of balance in the tank? Am I too late to ask for more information regarding the general set up of this tank? If there is still concern, Perigrinus is welcome to call me to discuss. Things can be handled so much quicker in direct conversation. I usually ask a lot of questions to fully understand the setup before I make suggestions for improvement. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: peregrinus
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 10:58am
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it was drip very slowly it took almost a whole day to drip it. started it at night and was still going when i went to work. that was a few days before i tested. my test kit said it was that high. i have 2 55 gals hooked to a 30+gal sump with a 20 gal refug.
two pumps one is 700+ gal the other is 800+ gal. |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 11:55am
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Well, I can't see the kalk causing this problem. I think the culprit lies somewhere else. We must not be asking the right questions . ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |
Posted By: scroll
Date Posted: August 26 2003 at 11:35pm
kalk would lower your ph. Right  ------------- just my 3 cents shy of a nickel. Ryan 897-2000 1 125 gallon reef 1 120 gallon reef tank and stand custom built by MSM |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 27 2003 at 6:48am
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Kalk has a pH raising effect generally speaking. In some tanks it doesn't have any effect (or so I'm told). In all my times using it, it's increased my average pH. Full strengh kalk has a pH close to 12. The alkalinity portion of kalk is OH- (read: high pH). This OH then reacts with dissolved CO2 to form the carbonates that we want:
OH + CO2 -> HCO3 and eventually H + CO3 ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |