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msemanuel 
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 Topic: sand or mud for refugium?
Posted: September 09 2007 at 2:27pm |
We are in the process of setting up a 55 gal. sump/ refugium for our 75 reef. We are not sure if we should put in live sand or the refugium mud. What do you guys recommend/ use?
Thanks for any input.
Mike and Cindy
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29 gallon reef
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GARFVolunteer
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Posted: September 09 2007 at 4:56pm |
If I lived in the SLC area, I would use Utah sand as it is readily available and inexpensive. The prepackaged mud from the LFS tends to be expensive and I really do not think there is any advantage to it.
Once you have the sand, you can seed it from your 75 or other hobbyists tanks.
Thanks,
Scott
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President Idaho Marine Aquarium Society
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Mike Savage
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Posted: September 09 2007 at 6:16pm |
I agree. Go with sand.
Mike
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 7:49pm |
Below is a pic of Miracle Mud. It is mostly silica sand. Other than a growth nutrient for live sponge, silica seems to do practically nothing for our tanks. The food we feed our fish and coral has plenty of nutrients for algae as bio-filtration growing on LR and in Refugium.
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msemanuel
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 8:54pm |
So sand it is. Whats the best way to start buy sand from the store then seed it with sand from tank or is there a better way to start it off?
thanks
mike
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29 gallon reef
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Mike Savage
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 9:58pm |
Collect Oolitic sand locally or use an aragonite based sand such as those from CaribSea like Special Grade or Super Reef and seed it with some live sand from an existing tank.
Mike
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 10:47pm |
msemanuel, Evidently, you haven't read this:
It should answer some of your questions.
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Dale
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Posted: September 10 2007 at 11:45pm |
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I have alot of Mud left over from my refugium i made. I can sell you some for cheap. Give me a call if you want some. 633-1256
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Dale
29g biocube
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msemanuel
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 5:15pm |
Mark I did read that article and it was very informative. But with everything on my mind I forgot Thanks for the reminder.
mike
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29 gallon reef
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Lyscer
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 7:41pm |
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Personally I would ditch the LS and just go with live rock in my sump/refugium. There are a few tanks on here setup like that and they are doing fine. I know that when I move my skimmer and stuff around I have to be careful of not stirring the sand up and kicking up all of the nutrients that have 'sunk' into it. I don't have any critters in my sump to really stir the sand. So in my opinion it is just a nutrient sink. You can use mud/sand/whatever, there are a lot of people running their tanks like this, but would I use sand again? Probably not.
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EagleEyez5
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 7:44pm |
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I added about 2 inches of argonite mud in my 15 gal quarantine tank I then covered it with three inches of crushed coral...in doing this, I have seem my calcium slowly raise, and have had to dose with an alk buffer to keep that up.......it leaches calcium and other good things into the tank......just read the bag when you buy it.......also if you need, I have about 1 1/2 to 2 gal of sand left over from my new setup.....that I will give you for free......it is already washed......PM me if interested.....
Edited by EagleEyez5 - September 12 2007 at 12:43am
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EagleEyez5
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 7:50pm |
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In my new setup, I will do my deep sand bed in one section.....a 6-8 inch deep sand bed does alot for your tank.....I don't know all the specifics, you should pm baconfat about it.....he is the chemestry genius(up at the U) and could give you alot more info on it......all I know is that he said he would do this if it were his tank.....and I trust him.....
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KludgeGuru
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Posted: September 11 2007 at 9:02pm |
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I have some Utah sand I will sale for $0.50/lb.
-Rocks
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BrineySea
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Posted: September 25 2007 at 12:14am |
We have a 13 month old 54g reef aquarium with a 40g sump & G2 skimmer. We have struggled for the past year balancing calcium, alk and nitrates....very frustrating given our filtration system. We have 6 fish and various corals.
Yesterday we purchased an Ecosystems refugium tank, which comes with "miracle mud" among other things. I've heard equally good things about both live sand & mud, but we don't want to build the new filtration system only to discover a year from now that we should have done it another way as the filtration systems are very expensive, but well worth it to protect and help our reef flourish. We are also unclear as to whether we should still use a protein skimmer in the new system? PLEASE HELP :-)
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JnK Wadsworth
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: September 25 2007 at 9:43am |
Not that Miracle Mud is bad, it's just overpriced. The same effect could be acheived with dirt from your backyard. But is the effect necessary? My answer to that is "No". I've seen many tanks using Miracle Mud in the Refugium and they look no different than one using simple aragonite substrate. And since Utah sand is aragonite, it is almost free and very effective! 
The major advantage of a Refugium is what it can provide in so many ways. I put together a list of benefits in the last SeaStar Newsletter, http://www.utahreefs.com/SeaStar/SeaStar%20-%20Jul%202007.pdf but curiously, the buffering of the water with Alk and Ca was not on my mind when I made that list. I guess I figure that most people have more sand and a larger sand bed in the main tank so that's where the major buffering occurs. Still, the list of benefits is quite impressive.
A protien skimmer is a very good tool. The 2 biggest reasons for a skimmer are first, to prevent serious consequences in case of major death and second, to sufficiently clean the water to enable better SPS growth.
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