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Mark Peterson
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Topic: Sunlight on the reef aquarium Posted: May 06 2011 at 9:06am |
At the meeting last night, a discussion started regarding whether UV(ultraviolet) sunlight comes in through the window to help clean the water and control disease. I believe that it does. The result is that rather than lose many fish to an epidemic as some have experienced, I lose only an individual fish here and there. Whether this is the result of UV light or other yet unknown characteristics of sunlight on a reef, I don't know. What I do know is that sunlight on my tanks looks awesome, especially in the bright morning sun. These tanks seem to be healthier and more vibrant because of the sunlight.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 9:45am |
I agree with Mark that tanks can benefit from the sun. I wish I could get the sun to hit my 7.5g cube but I am in a basement and it isn't possible.
I would also agree that some UV gets through but I doubt it is much. For most of us the sunlight has to go through a window and then the tank. Most new windows are 2-3 panes of glass and probably block a lot of UV light. Not to mention the thickness of glass on our tanks.
There is a guy over on RC that built an outside room and used greenhouse material for all the windows. His tank is totally lit by the sun and it is an AMAZING tank.
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jwoo
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 10:36am |
Ryan Thompson wrote:
There is a guy over on RC that built an outside room and used greenhouse material for all the windows. His tank is totally lit by the sun and it is an AMAZING tank. |
Ohhh I remember that thread! His whole greenhouse operation is awesome. If you haven't seen it I highly suggest you read through the thread. It shows exactly what you CAN do with sunlight alone. Seriously awesome.
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None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront
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bur01014
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 1:00pm |
What about true actinic bulbs? I heard these put out "some" uv, because they are in the 400 spectrum range right? Perhaps the sunlight through a window would contain more uv? I don't know, I have just been thinking about this, but since no one uses true actinics hardly anymore I doubt there is real answer.
On the flip side (not about ich, but coral color), I have read that many corals dislike UV rays and in response to the UV they put up their "protection layer", which results in very bright and vibrant colors (mostly SPS).....hence, perhaps why Mark's always blabbing about his colors....I might throw in a few true actinic bulbs and see if I get a color response....unless you guys correct me and I am totally on the wrong page here....
On the flip side, MH bulbs usually have uv protectors over the bulb to stop uv light...weird it seems, but maybe why some MH setups exhibit beautiful colors while some MH setups don't....they run their bulb without a shield??
I am not convinced we don't need actinic or sunlight supplimentation in order to get magnificent colors through uv ray penetration.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 1:46pm |
Corals don't put up a "protection layer" against UV. The colors you are seeing is usually protein and some algae.
There was an article once that stated that the color of a coral was its' "sunscreen". That was later disrpoved. T5's put out very little UV and like you stated, MH's have a glass shield to filter out UV. You don't want an unprotected MH bulb blasting your tank. You will kill your corals doing that.
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saltlaketank
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 2:16pm |
Both Mark and Adam had great points.
In regards to the UV going through glass. . . Of course it doest. Look at a tanning bed which uses UV light. If it did not go through glass you would not get a tan. Likwise there would be no point in using a UV sterilizer if UV did not get through to kill bacteria. And further more there would not be glass that is UV blocking.
I like both setups and all aspects to the contextual arguments brought up.
Personally my 55gallon tank sits in front of the window and get plenty of sunlight. It's only a two month old tank with over 20 thriving corals and lots of coraline algae growth. I have good algae on the rock but not too much and have not had problems with algae on the glass. And all levels are well withing good range.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 2:20pm |
The glass shields on MH bulbs blocks all of the UV.
Tanning bed lights and aquarium lights are two totally different things.
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Dion Richins
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 2:39pm |
Uv sterializers use quartz glass that allows all UV to get through.
Edited by Dion Richins - May 06 2011 at 2:40pm
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bur01014
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 3:04pm |
Ryan Thompson wrote:
Corals don't put up a "protection layer" against UV. The colors you are seeing is usually protein and some algae.
There was an article once that stated that the color of a coral was its' "sunscreen". That was later disrpoved. T5's put out very little UV and like you stated, MH's have a glass shield to filter out UV. You don't want an unprotected MH bulb blasting your tank. You will kill your corals doing that. |
Can I get a link to the "disapproval" of this following science? "Corals that live in shallow-water are typically exposed to high levels
of potentially damaging solar radiation. In addition to this potential
damage from the sun, the coral's situation is made even more difficult
by the release of oxygen that is produced by the algal symbionts
(zooxanthellae) during photosynthesis. Even with these
potentially damaging scenarios, coral animals are able to withstand
long-term exposure to damaging amounts of ultraviolet radiation from
the sun. Scientists believe corals posses a compound that acts as a
type of sunscreen for these organisms. These compounds, known as
mycosporine-like amino acids (MMAs), have the ability to efficiently
absorb UV light. Corals are either able to accumulate enough MMAs,
either through producing them or accumulating them through feeding, to
protect themselves against the strong solar radiation that is typical
of tropical areas. Researchers are even investigating the possibility
that these MMAs may be able to be produced to provide another type of
sunscreen for humans. It is the UV light that gives most SPS
corals their brightly colored tips. These colors are actually a natural
type of defense against harmful UV light. To date only reasonably
strong metal halide lighting can produce enough UV light to "fool" SPS
corals into producing this defense. SPS corals will grow and even
flourish under different types and lower intensity lighting, but the
fluorescent tip colors will be lacking or much paler in color." I think this came to life last year, so was interested to see when this was considered false....
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 3:16pm |
bur01014 wrote:
Ryan Thompson wrote:
Corals don't put up a "protection layer" against UV. The colors you are seeing is usually protein and some algae.
There was an article once that stated that the color of a coral was its' "sunscreen". That was later disrpoved. T5's put out very little UV and like you stated, MH's have a glass shield to filter out UV. You don't want an unprotected MH bulb blasting your tank. You will kill your corals doing that. |
Can I get a link to the "disapproval" of this following science?
"Corals that live in shallow-water are typically exposed to high levels
of potentially damaging solar radiation. In addition to this potential
damage from the sun, the coral's situation is made even more difficult
by the release of oxygen that is produced by the algal symbionts
(zooxanthellae) during photosynthesis.
Even with these
potentially damaging scenarios, coral animals are able to withstand
long-term exposure to damaging amounts of ultraviolet radiation from
the sun. Scientists believe corals posses a compound that acts as a
type of sunscreen for these organisms. These compounds, known as
mycosporine-like amino acids (MMAs), have the ability to efficiently
absorb UV light. Corals are either able to accumulate enough MMAs,
either through producing them or accumulating them through feeding, to
protect themselves against the strong solar radiation that is typical
of tropical areas. Researchers are even investigating the possibility
that these MMAs may be able to be produced to provide another type of
sunscreen for humans.
It is the UV light that gives most SPS
corals their brightly colored tips. These colors are actually a natural
type of defense against harmful UV light. To date only reasonably
strong metal halide lighting can produce enough UV light to "fool" SPS
corals into producing this defense. SPS corals will grow and even
flourish under different types and lower intensity lighting, but the
fluorescent tip colors will be lacking or much paler in color."
I think this came to life last year, so was interested to see when this was considered false....
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I don't have a link for it but I remember someone posting a nice article that brought up some great points disproving the above theory.
For example, if the UV light is so great and can "fool" SPS into the bright tips, why aren't we all running MH systems with no UV filtering?
I think the better colors come from a few things.
1) More light, PAR, PUR and spectrum.
2) Adequate flow and great parameters.
3) Food, I saw much better colors out of my corals when I fed them regularly. Whether I was feeding mysis to my LPS or the bacteria to my SPS. Everything did much better with more available food.
Edited by Ryan Thompson - May 06 2011 at 3:17pm
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saltlaketank
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 4:06pm |
Ryan Thompson wrote:
The glass shields on MH bulbs blocks all of the UV.
Tanning bed lights and aquarium lights are two totally different things. |
What we're really talking about here is sunlight.
Yes tanning bed light may be different from aquarium lights.
But the question was can UV pass through glass??? Well yes it can as it does in a tanning bed.
Likewise the UV from the sun passes through your window, that's why you can get a sunburn driving to wendover with your window up.
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JayDee 8016042780
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 4:12pm |
Double post
Edited by CapnMorgan - May 06 2011 at 4:16pm
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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CapnMorgan
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 4:14pm |
saltlaketank wrote:
Ryan Thompson wrote:
The glass shields on MH bulbs blocks all of the UV.
Tanning bed lights and aquarium lights are two totally different things. |
What we're really talking about here is sunlight.
Yes tanning bed light may be different from aquarium lights.
But the question was can UV pass through glass??? Well yes it can as it does in a tanning bed.
Likewise the UV from the sun passes through your window, that's why you can get a sunburn driving to wendover with your window up. |
It depends on the type of glass. For example the glass shield on MH bulbs blockas the UV from hitting corals. The glass in most houses is UV shielded, whereas the glass used in UV sterilizers is a special high quartz glass that allows the maximum amount of UV through it, hence the name "Quartz Sleeve". So the amount of UV transmission through glass heavily depends on the type.
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Steve My Old 180G Mixed ReefCurrently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8
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saltlaketank
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Posted: May 06 2011 at 4:16pm |
CapnMorgan wrote:
saltlaketank wrote:
Ryan Thompson wrote:
The glass shields on MH bulbs blocks all of the UV.
Tanning bed lights and aquarium lights are two totally different things. |
What we're really talking about here is sunlight.
Yes tanning bed light may be different from aquarium lights.
But the question was can UV pass through glass??? Well yes it can as it does in a tanning bed.
Likewise the UV from the sun passes through your window, that's why you can get a sunburn driving to wendover with your window up. |
Different types of glass allow for different levels of UV transmission. For example the glass shielding in MH bulbs blocks almost all of the UV, modern windows on houses block most UV light. The glass sleeve in UV sterilizers is a special high quartz glass which is allows it the maximum amount of UV to pass through it. It all depends on what type of glass you are using. |
I agree with capn, Glass blocks most UVB but lets through most UVA, UVB is most known for burning your skin however UVA burns deeper and contributes to cancer etc. However with extended amounts of time UVA with burn your skin as well. Another thing to consider is as soon as you crack the window, which most people do with the window by their fish tank, most all of the UVB get through and therefor is very similar to having open sunlight on your tank.
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JayDee 8016042780
90 Gallon
30 Gallon sump
G3 Skimmer
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