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pilot_172 
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 Topic: t5 lighting
Posted: August 13 2009 at 8:44pm |
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hi, i am considering with a new tank to set up a t5 retro. I was thinking about going with 4 48" t5 bulbs powered by 2 ballasts. Anyone have recommendations on color spectrum bulb set ups? also, any stores around that valley that have a better selection than others? i considered buying the lights online but i think the risk of breakage is pretty high so i'm trying locally first. Input will be appreciated. thanks
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 5:18pm |
What size tank is this going over? What color do you want it to be, 10k, 14k, 20k? What kind of corals do you plan to keep in the tank?
The best store for T5 is Reef Runners. John orders is directly from Reefgeek. So go on reefgeek.com and find what you want there and he will order it. That way you also support the LFS. If you want to get it directly from reefgeek you can to. I have ordered dozens of bulbs from them and not one has been broken. If it does break they send you a new one out overnight for free usually.
For 4 bulbs I recommend:
ATI Blue Plus KZ Fiji Purple ATI Aquablue ATI Blue Plus
Use a Blue Plus is the third position if you want more of a 20k look. The above should be around 14k or so.
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Jeremyw
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 5:23pm |
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what size of tank?
What are the blueprints of it?
I just put t5s as supplemental lights with my MH over my 90 gallon and 4 would not nearly be enough to light the bottom properly. Probably 8 would though~
Edited by woottonjeremy - August 15 2009 at 11:38am
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dustponds10
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 11:13am |
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Just so you know I run a 6 bulb Nova extreme pro over my 120 that is around 24 inches deep. I alos have a frag system that is 50 gallons and it only has 4 bulbs over it. T-5's I dont think get the credit that they deserve. In my 120 I have sps and clams on the bottom. I run pretty much the same lighting scheme as Ryan
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120
ASM G-3
T-5 lighting
130 frag system
T-5 lighting
asm G-1x
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Turbostud653
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:06pm |
are UVL lights better or worse than ATI or is it matter of prefrence?
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Here is what a customer said while on hold Oh my gosh! Did you open the door? I told you not to open the door. Dre is in here completely naked and he's got freak'n Macaroni and Cheese in his hands.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:16pm |
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UVL has lower PAR than ATI but both brands are good brands. I prefer the ATI over UVL just for the reason of the PAR numbers.
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Jeremyw
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:21pm |
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Why PAR ryan? Several LFS in utah county and Salt lake say that PAR is over rated and dont look into it that much what and what about PUR. They all say if you look at it dont read into it unless you understand Pur. So why focus on the PAR and not the PUR ? because par is just available radiation while PUR is used radiation.
Im not trying to be a jerk ryan im just curious becaues I reed on planted tank.net that when your looking at a bulb and you read par you should really be looking at pur and what corals you have in your tank and what they need.
Im just curious because you seem to be the "Expert" on T5s so I just wanted a little advice from someone who knows a ton about them, like you do.
Thanks!
Edited by woottonjeremy - August 15 2009 at 2:24pm
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:26pm |
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Because the majority of us have no way of measuring PUR. I would say a very few people actually can measure PUR. So why go off numbers that aren't readily accessible? Most LFS have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to T5 anyways, IMO. If I had PUR numbers for all bulbs that would be great but it is also gonna depend on your corals not just bulbs.
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Jeremyw
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:34pm |
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I personally think thats kind of harsh to say about our LFS here in Utah. I do believe the owners know alot about PAR and PUR and t5s, But I agree with some of ther employess (heck the other day one of them didnt know the difference between a banner fish and a Morish Idol and he fought me hard, trying to say they were the same thing)
I looked them up online really quick and PUR numbers are all over the net. You just have to do a little research.
I know it depends on the corals as well so shouldnt I purchase a good PUR rating bulb for my corals?
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 15 2009 at 2:43pm |
I won't get into a debate about the owners and the employees of LFS. I personally like all the owners I have met. They are great to deal with. The employees on the other hand can NEVER be trusted, IMO.
So with your argument you are saying that you will have better results running all UVL Super Actinic compared to running all ATI Blue Plus or even the UVL 454? The Super Actinic has the highest PUR that I could find. I would be willing to bet I will have better growth and colors running all blue bulbs compared to running all actinic bulbs. Just my opinion on that.
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dustponds10
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Posted: August 16 2009 at 12:39am |
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I for one think that it is important to give your corals a good amount of every light spectrum that you can. No facts behind this but it only makes sence to me. Maybe it doesnt make any sence to any one else. I do know that some corals grow better under around 20k of light and other seem to grow better under 10k. I think alot of it depends on your water and how often you do water changes and whaqt not. JMO
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120
ASM G-3
T-5 lighting
130 frag system
T-5 lighting
asm G-1x
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Aquatic Evolution
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 1:03pm |
I think Jeremy pointed out a very important fact, PUR is very important and that PAR is very misused and/or misunderstanded. You kind of confirmed it when you compared UVL with ATI, UVL does have a higher PUR value so why not use it? Saying this bulb is better than another based on PAR is a misrepresentation (IMO). The difference between PAR on good brands is so small it becomes kind of irrelevant. When you consider the difference of PUR values within brands, PUR becomes much more relevant than PAR.
Jeremys' not saying to use all Actinics he is just pointing out the important infortmation. Why would anyone run only 400-450nm bulbs "all Bue or Actinic'? You need the full spectrum like dustponds said.
If you consider different colors that look best to you, its a personal opinion on aesthetics. Not the proper light configuration.
I cant speak for other stores owners and employ about their experience with T-5's. But considering what they do for a living, they likely have much more experience than most and will hopefully help you make the proper buying decision.
Just wondering Ryan, what tank are you using those "dozens" of bulbs you've ordered on? 
Shawn @ Aquatica
P.S. We normally stock ATI, our fill in order will be here in a couple of days.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 1:16pm |
Shawn,
I had T5's over my 45 before my misison that I ordered for and I also have a FW planted tank that I run T5's on. I have also done three or four group orders from Reefgeek. I also bought a 6 bulb retro kit from Reefgeek a few months back that was gonna go on my 90 gallon. I have since sold all of that and am setting up my 40 gallon. I will also be ordering 6 bulbs for that. 
To say that UVL has the highest PUR is not accurate. I can't find anyone that has PUR numbers for any other brand. Advanced Aquarist did a study on UVL and that is all I could find. If anyone has a link for other brands I would love to read those studies. But yet again PUR also depends on the corals in your tank, NOT just the bulbs. PAR is a HUGE factor when buying bulbs for me. The ATI Blue Plus has 40-50 more PAR than the UVL 454. That is 15% more for just one bulb! To say PAR is misused is very inaccurate. PAR may be over rated but not misused.
Jeremy's argument was that PUR is the way to go. I agree 110% you have to give your corals the full spectrum for them to thrive but going off just PUR will hurt you. So we must agree that you have to look at many factors when considering lighting. PAR, PUR, spectrum, and others. (Not necessarily in that order)
My personal belief is that the more blues the better. Red light is filtered out in the ocean within 30 feet. From my understanding, the majority of corals we buy are collected from 60-90 feet. At that depth blue light is really the only wavelength getting to the corals.
PS - Go look at all the gorgeous T5 tanks and tell me how many are running UVL. You will find that 95% of them use ATI, Gmann, or Korallen Zucht.
Edited by Ryan Thompson - August 17 2009 at 1:22pm
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 2:00pm |
My personal belief is that the more blues the better. Red light is filtered out in the ocean within 30 feet. From my understanding, the majority of corals we buy are collected from 60-90 feet. At that depth blue light is really the only wavelength getting to the corals.
Not to get into this... but I'll bet that 90% of the corals we get in the hobby come from LESS than 20 feet deep. (I've been to a few coral collecting locations)
Adam
now go back to talking about bulbs 
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 2:03pm |
Adam,
If that is the case the that is good to know. I don't have any reason to not believe you on the matter.
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 2:08pm |
Nearly all corals we get are collected free breath diving. Without fins the max I can collect is 22 feet or so. With fins, and a very loose coral, I can sometimes reach 30ft (in my younger days).
Nearly all collecting locations (Fiji, Indonesia, etc) it is illegal to use scuba when collecting. Corals are collected from reef flats in between storm seasons which is why we pretty much only see small little baby corals being collected for the hobby.
Adam
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Aquatic Evolution
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 8:54pm |
Ryan, I think you finally figured this whole thing out. There are too many variables to base you buying decision on PAR by itself.
Adam is correct, most corals and fish are collected in less than 20' of water.
Ryan keep searching there are a lot of tests done about PUR. The simple thing is, you need to choose the best lighting for the type of Corals and Clams you want to keep.
ie: Acropora vs Zoanthid, Tridactna Maxima vs. Tridactna Derasa
Edited by Aquatica - August 17 2009 at 8:55pm
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Aquatic Evolution
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 9:03pm |
Ryan;
Here is a start, it is much more extensive than just T-5. There are others just look.
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BobC63
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Posted: August 17 2009 at 10:52pm |
I'm just gonna throw this out there....
Halides, Halides, HALIDES!!!
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- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -
* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Aquatic Evolution
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Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:41am |
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I agree with Bob!!!
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