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Mark Peterson 
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 Topic: What about that Utah Rock?
Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:34am |
This is most commonly known here as "Utah Rock" but officially in the world of Utah Geology it's Lake Bonneville Tufa. Here is some info to help you understand just what it is and how excellently it works for us.
Lake Bonneville Tufa Rock(LBTR/Utah Rock) is Calcium Carbonate, very similar to Live Rock from the ocean.  It formed by the action of marine organisms and salt water processes over hundreds of years in the depths of Lake Bonneville. Over 10,000 years ago Lake Bonneville covered most of Utah, parts of Nevada, Idaho and Wyoming. It was an inland ocean. The evidence of Lake Bonneville is quite visible. It is seen in the level terraces that ring the mountains all around us. These terraces are the old beaches and shoreline of Lake Bonneville.
Utah Rock is similar in some ways to the dry rock that is mined from the ground in Florida from ancient reefs. Though not as ancient as those rocks, such as Marco Rock, Reef Savers Rock, etc., clean and sterile Utah Rock also contains and initially leaches low levels of PO4, a mineral which is easily eaten up by Macroalgae, and absorbed by PO4 removal media(AA, GFO) while in the aquarium. No special soaking or treatment is needed.
Utah Rock needs to be cleaned properly. It comes from the ground so it has dirt, roots, lichen/moss and even bugs living in it. If it is not cleaned properly with a high power water jet, problems will develop in the aquarium.
Look at all that porosity .  It is even more porous than most LR.
A layer of LBTR on a rock outcropping west of SLC. (The rock on this formation is too dense for our use.)
Aloha, MarksReef Coral Farm in Murray 808-345-1049
Edited by Mark Peterson - February 19 2015 at 8:08am
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:40am |
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Isn't there already a huge topic about this?
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:09am |
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Okay, I changed the topic. Is that better?
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:13am |
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Still seems kinda redundant imo
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:25am |
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Maybe you saw my post in the lace rock thread before I cut and moved it to this new thread.
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 9:03am |
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You cover utah rock in the topic in your signature. And there are several other topics about utah rock on the forum. Nobody really asked about it, so you're just creating new topics for fun? It's not against the rules I guess, just a little odd haha
Great information, just already available to anyone who reads your signature.
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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ReefdUp
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 1:37pm |
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I thought the same thing when I saw this listed...
"Omg...are we seriously rehashing Utah rock for the millionth time?"
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Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 1:41pm |
Oh I see what you're saying. Well, as surprising as it may seem, I meet a lot of people who have never heard of it so I figure it can't hurt and may help to bring it up in a new topic from time to time. On top of that, in the last two days I have met two couples that never heard of the WMAS. One saw my ad on ksl.com and the other I met outside a LFS. This is not uncommon. I keep WMAS business cards in my wallet. Always trying to get the word out. 
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Marcoss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 2:27pm |
I was at LFS up north and overheard someone saying that Utah rock has caused a lot of issues. Does anyone know of any tanks crashing that can be associated with it? I understand tanks can crash for a lot of reasons, and many probably unknown to the person that has it crash.
Also, it was an LFS that sells rock for a lot versus free Utah rock so take it for what is worth. After seeing so many issues on another post about lace rock I can't help but think that rock that isn't professionally made/sold might be suspect.
Marcos
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 2:41pm |
Mark, I'm sure that your ads for Utah Rock on KSL and these forums present enough opportunity for newcomers to hear about it. Glad you offer that option to those who want it. Nikki, 1,023,234 if my count is correct. Marcoss, I've seen Utah rocks that leach a LOT of nutrients. Have personally tested it myself. It is far from perfect calcium carbonate. It can work in a reef, but be ready to face higher nutrient levels. The best rock for any reef is calcium carbonate, as close to pure as possible. You want it to be free of other nutrients and chemicals if you plan on maintaining water quality.
No rock is pure, but Utah Rock is quite a few steps away from it. It really just depends on what your personal tastes are and what your budget affords as to which route you take.
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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ReefdUp
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:09pm |
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There's one thread (of the 1,023,234 threads on this) where I posted up soil analysis from that area (used to do that sort of testing for my job near the sites as well to personally confirm the findings.) The areas are high in copper, selenium, chromium, cadmium, you name it. There's no way I'd use it. Sure, it works for some, but I wouldn't risk it. If you were to use it, I'd keep the pH at or above 8.4 to help prevent leaching.
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www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:11pm |
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Yeah I wouldn't use it if my life depended on it. I was just being nice and considerate haha
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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Marcoss
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:15pm |
That answers it for me. Good information from two that I have personally gotten good information from.
If I can prevent an issue from happening then I will take that route, even if its NOT more economical. I personally do not want to save money over setting something up that may or may not leach and fail down the road.
Marcos
Edited by Marcoss - February 19 2015 at 3:25pm
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relethg
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:37pm |
Nikki, Have you tested Oolitic sand from Utah. What was the analysis of it?
Thanks Glenn
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210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
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ReefdUp
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:34pm |
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I wasn't specifically looking for the oolitic sand, so I don't know. Regardless, there are tons of geographical and pollution surveys out there showing most of the regions where the rock is found is high (naturally and unnaturally) in various heavy metals. Keep in mind that the largest open face copper mine is in the area.
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www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 7:42am |
The comments from the two above are without basis in experience. They are simply comments made out of fear. They have never come to my place, never looked at the sand and rock I have available and never used it.
Over more than a decade of using Utah Rock and sand, there are many people that have used it and continue to use it, finding that it works excellent and does not cause any problems. The naysayers will probably never try it and yet will continue to publicly condemn it. How unfortunate.
Many years ago I provided some Utah sand for analysis. The thread is an old one that might be hard to find. It was compared to CaribSea Oolitic and found to contain slightly higher amounts of the very things that we normally add as supplements. The largest difference was a much higher Mg content in Utah Sand, a finding which is a great positive. The downside was slightly higher PO4 than the CaribSea sand. Of course PO4 is always getting into our aquariums via other sources so the little bit that dissolves from the sand is insignificant.
Hearing and reading of a few complaints, I have always tracked them down as best I can. None of those people got their sand or rock from me and did not follow my preparation instructions. It is important that anyone who wants to use these natural resources come to me to get the right material, and to receive direction on how to properly prepare it for use.
Aloha, Mark  |
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:02am |
Actually Mark I purchased rock and sand from you 5 years ago, before your second round of adventures in Hawaii. I purchased three 5 gallon buckets full of the stuff. You kept it outside by the garbage pails at the time. I used a pressure hose to clean the rock at a car wash, and cured it as per your instructions. I ran Utah rock in one of my tanks for over three years. I have also collected my own, and have done testing on both. Maybe you should double check your records before publicly condemning me.
Below is the reef I ran with your rock in it:
 It wasn't a bad reef tank, but it struggled with phosphates and I was hard pressed to get stony corals to thrive. Both your rock, and my own collected rock contained phosphates, copper ( very common here in utah soil ), and and other trace elements which can be harmful to reef animals. Tests were conducted at Weber State University. There are very few places in the world where oolitic sand forms, and it is likely that carib-sea got their oolitic sand from Utah. Naturally the test results would be very similar. They likely strip phosphates before shipping out the sand, although I'm not 100% certain on their decontamination processes. I'm not saying Utah Rock WILL NOT WORK in a reef. It just contains higher phosphates and should be run with carbon. I personally would rather not risk it. A muriatic acid bath is probably the best way to prep Utah rock for use. A bleach bath if nothing else. See the existing topics for cleaning live rock or just pester Nikki for more info. I promised to be nice and play fair Mark, but that requires effort on your part as well. It's all good, take a deep breath. We're all friends here. 
Edited by Pete Moss - February 20 2015 at 10:02am
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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relethg
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:30am |
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Who else has used this rock and sand in a tank with SPS and LPS corals?
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210 G Filled 18 Mar 15
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Pete Moss
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:33am |
Here is a funny picture to lighten the mood :) 
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125g 90g 2x33g 34g
What stores do I recommend?
Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 )
Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 )
Member of GCFB
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Shane H
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 10:04am |
I used to use Utah rock (from Mark) for all the frags I would sale/trade. I don't do that much anymore, but I don't recall ever having a problem with it. I think using a small amount (by percentage) of clean, Utah rock as part of your reef would be reasonable. Stress .. clean.
I don't know the statistics, but I'm guessing that any alternative to removing reef rock from the ocean for use in your aquarium would be considered a good thing.
Either way, it's quite fun to watch John and Mark go at it. You two are quite the odd-couple.
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