MSM’s Class

I was just wondering if anyone was heading up to MSM's class tonight that might want to carpool. I just got their E-mailer and it says its on Ozone and UV. I have been having a little ick outbreak with my tank being new again so I thought a little brushing up on the best preventative measures would be in order. I know there are a few people on this board that are not too fond of MSM but based on my PM's there are more that think differently. I was actually glad to see that. I hope you all realize how good we have it here when compared to others.
Anyway let me know and we'll make it a venture. I am coming from the southeast side and the class goes from 7 till 9ish. I’ll check back as Ill be leaving around 6ish to see who is in.

Pete

Hey just to update. Those of you who PM'd me and wound up not attending the class missed out. Those of us who went all got a great non biased view of the pros and cons of sterilizers. They, at least IMO, have their place especially when your system is new.
Mark thanks for the insight but I think safe is always better than sorry. Besides I like the whole control thing. I like knowing what my ORP is and knowing that if something bad happens like power failure, two days ago, a pump or fish dieing, I can tank precautionary measures to insure none of my other inhabitants are affected. I do like the "natural" approach but I understand where tree hugging ends and reality begins.

I did in fact ask Randy about your comment regarding the Refugia thing...not quite the same answer but…. Just to warn you he said he has to kill you next time he see’s you, he said you'd understand…
No offence to you of course, but he took the time to find a few old lab reports from the University of Chicago department of Biology dated 1993-1995 on that very subject. Apparently they were doing experiments in the labs on pH stability and reverse daylight. The "refugia" benefit just happened to be a plus, apparently an accidental finding. These systems were much larger than the now adopted "standards" but same basic principle I guess. Anyway the topic went on for quite some time and I learned a lot there too...two classes for the price of one.
Thanks Mark for the catalyst.

Pete

Jon they really did dent push anything, not like a sales pressure thing. In fact it was quite the opposite. Randy’s position is to be patient and wait. In time you really don’t require either, unless the unexpected occurs. In fact, he emphasized the counterproductive nature of them when compared to the natural approach. They just lined out what the details were of each method, including the natural approach.
The whole thing is sort of like the on going skimmer debate...to skim or not to skim. They just presented the facts and not just their opinions. They cited findings from books and independent research done by others. It was a well rounded discussion and still in my opinion, not biased at all.
I just like knowing I can turn my skimmer and ozone on and off as my tank requires, I like that control to insure the best possible environment.

Pete

I have thought of going and and have even attempted same . . . but the
distance is just greater than I can seem to muster. I would need Friday
evening classes in order to not suffer the next day too much.

I think it comes to management styles Renee, I am not sure that there is
'one' right and thus the others are wrong. I have a 25 watt UV on my fresh
water 180 gallon, I had always planned to use it on my reef tank(s) at
some point. In my mind it would run 24/7 and I would try to kill
everything. I had looked into ozone as well and even bought a skimmer
with a JG port for same. I was trying to make a 'sterile' system. It was all
that I knew, kill everything and then the things I wish to keep will be well .
. . even to the point of using a bare bottom like in my FW fry tanks and
such.

I read a saltwater book and found out about live rock and live sand and
the natural system 'as I understand it.' I could not be farther from where I
thought I would start out. I now wish to have 'pods' and friends, to let the
natural system use up the chemicals that are in abundance, PO4 and
Nitrate for example . . . and export same. A small reverse lighting fuge,
(soon to be a 29) will help even more. A place for pipe fish or sea horses
at some point, food for a Mandarin . . . someday when I convert over my
180 and use the current 55 for a fuge.

I would use the UV as I believe you are going to. On a Q tank always, here
we can be bare bottom and or very shallow, here we only wish to keep the
fish and destroy all bad things . . . and we can spare those good ones that
happen to be there. In a display tank one could use it as one must . . . but
it will weaken the good with the bad . . . disrupt the natural cycle some,
oh over time it can and will recover, but the successive waves of balance
that a system goes through for the first 12 to 18 months may be
extended. It is your tank do as you wish this way. The number of tank
turns x the wattage through it will determine how effective. The can be
very effective on small systems, not so with out changing the 'natural'
balance in a much larger one, IMO.

The live or let die method I see here in some of the posters, I have
adapted, it is the first item of influence from the WHAS in my system(s). I
get the feel that most of the members here are natural systems followers.
On a commercial system UV, Ozone, ORP Controllers and such may be of
use. I think they are a wonderful tool used as needed or on Q systems.
They indiscriminately destroy to much for use in my display systems.
However there may be a time and a place for such Renee, and after
looking over the suggestions and looking at what is best for you . . .
please do that.