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Suzy 
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 Topic: plumbing
Posted: June 09 2003 at 2:24pm |
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Hi, Guys! I have always hated the look of power heads in our tank. The only thing is, we got great circulation! I've got power heads blowing across the top, across the bottom and two in both ends pointing straight up. I've tried using pvc pipe to hide pumps under rocks .Worked for a while 'till the pumps started to clog up, what a -itch to get them out to wipe off the inlet place! Do you think I could use an external pump (Iwaki?) to get as good of H2O motion ? Anybody using an Iwaki? Do you like your set up with it? Thanks!!
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twflint
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 2:43pm |
My Quiet One pump seems to have died last Friday. I picked up a new WMD40RLXT from Iwaki. So far I have been happy with it. It does make a bit more noise than the Quiet One, but it is not too bad. Seems to put out a decent GPH. Spec sheets show it at 1200 GPH at 4 Feet of head.
I am still running 3 PH in the tank though. Just the Iwaki didn't seem like it was doing a whole lot, and thats in my 90 gallon.
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Suzy
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 3:29pm |
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If I put the pump under the tank on a shelve,it has to travel about 2 feet up to the top of the tank (do you have to count the distance across ?). Do you think if you had a stronger pump, you wouldn't need the PH's?
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jenjardu
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 3:38pm |
I think you do have to count accross. It's the total footage that the water travels in the pipe.
I'm not 100% sure though, lets see if someone backs me up or not 
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jfinch
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 4:41pm |
Suzy,
If you're after flow be sure to hook the external pump in a closed loop design. You'll get more flow since you'll have a higher suction pressure (esentually you're at 0 head, max flow). There is very little pressure drop in 10 feet of pipe... I'll actually look this up tomorrow when I get back to work.
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Marcus
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 4:47pm |
Suzy, I have an Iwaki WMD40RXLT on my 120. I love it. I will only use Iwaki pumps. I also have 3 other Iwaki's on systems here at work. Iwaki's last forever. The pump at my house runs my Berlin skimmer and my main tank at the same time. I have excellent flow.
Remember that every time you have a 90 degree angle in your plumbing you have to add approx. 3 feet head room. I have zero 90 degree angles in my plumbing. I use spaflex tubing so I can bend it.
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Suzy
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 6:08pm |
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Hi, Marcus! What model do I use for our 180? If I get one too big, can you decrease the output? Do you have these in stock?
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Kevin
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 7:04pm |
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As far as head pressure goes, it only counts for depth. It doesn't matter how much volume of water you have (horizontal) it only matters how deep the water is. The only thing that would decrease water flow with horizontal length is the size of the pipe and friction caused by the going through the pipe.
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Marcus
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 7:17pm |
Suzy, I like to turn my water eight times an hour. That would mean I would get a pump that uses at least 1440 gallons per hour at four feet if you are pumping up from a sump. If you want to use an in-sump skimmer with the same pump then I would bump that number up. An Iwaki IKMD70RLT has a Japanese Motor which is quieter and can pump 1500 gph at four feet. There are many ways to decrease the flow from your pump into the tank. One is to run a separate pipe off a "T" from your pump back into your sump with a ball valve. Then you can regulate the flow into your tank without backing up the pump and wearing it down.
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tomason
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Posted: June 09 2003 at 10:32pm |
If the horizontal distance the water travels is significant, then the friction does make a difference. The rule of thumb I've read is to add 1 foot of head pressure per 10 feet of horizontal piping. That's quite a distance, so you probably don't have to worry about it.
-Tom
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Suzy
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Posted: June 10 2003 at 7:17am |
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Way cool! I can actually get rid of UGLY powerheads! Jon Finch was at our house yesterday. He mentioned a "closed" loop system.Anybody using this sorta set-up?
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Marcus
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Posted: June 10 2003 at 12:05pm |
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Suzy, you already have a sump, right? Well, then way add a second pump? Why don't you just elaborate your sump and refugia and use a bigger pump. You can get a big pump that will run a couple different return lines and even put a S.Q.W.D. or something in there. I don't think there's a reason to run a second pump. BTY, deep sand beds work for reducing nitrates. If you don't hink that your is working, maybe you could put a bigger refugia and use that as your deep sand bed with a fine sand. That is how I set up tanks. You and Rob should come over and check out my tank and I can show you what I am talking about. Then you can hear the Iwaki too.
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jfinch
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Posted: June 10 2003 at 12:21pm |
For those who don't know what a closed loop circulation system is... think of a pump drawing suction directly out of the tank and returning it. No sump, no internal powerhead, ect. Here's how you get more flow (then using it compared to using a sump).
Here's the specs for the RIO 2500 pump (I happen to have handy):
- head (ft)- > 0 1 2 3 4 5
- Flow (gph) 782 720 666 580 529 439
Let's say it's a 4 foot drop from the top of the tank to the sump and/or return pump and there's an additional 1 ft pressure drop from the frictional losses in the piping.
If we let the water drop into a sump (loss of 4 ft head) then go to the pump and return to tank there is a total of 5 ft head loss, this means the circulation is only 439 gph.
If we use a closed loop we only have 1 ft head loss and a circulation of 720 gph.
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Suzy
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Posted: June 10 2003 at 6:44pm |
Hi, Marcus! We have two great big Rios in the tank now, with a good sized pump in the sump. I just want to get rid of the pumps in the tank. If I put the rios in the sump, I could plumb up to both corners with squids to achieve the same flow? 
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Marcus
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Posted: June 10 2003 at 8:14pm |
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Suzy, I would have to know model numbers of the Rio's and the type and model of the pump in the sump before I can try to answer that. Rio's are not great for head room. The new HF series is pretty good, but they are brand new.
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: June 15 2003 at 11:54pm |
remember there is aprox 3ft per 90degree angle so lets say you have a tank with sump from pump to top of tank is 4ft and you have 1 y 2ft up split to 2 90s you will have aprox 16ft of piping not just the 4 feet from botom to top.
Hope this may be helpfull info.......Ryan
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: June 15 2003 at 11:57pm |
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sorry Marcus I didn,t read the top to see you coverd this Good Show..Ryan
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MarineAquatics
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Posted: June 16 2003 at 12:04am |
Also a closed loop as it is explaned I have never hered of doing but on any magnetic pump any suction through piping will cause premature wear on the impelor and may cause damage to the pump (any pump used in aquariums are magnetic)
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jfinch
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Posted: June 16 2003 at 8:32am |
Quote: Originally posted by MarineAquatics on 16 June 2003
remember there is aprox 3ft per 90degree angle so lets say you have a tank with sump from pump to top of tank is 4ft and you have 1 y 2ft up split to 2 90s you will have aprox 16ft of piping not just the 4 feet from botom to top.
Hope this may be helpfull info.......Ryan
You may have missed this, but you might find this helpful when deciding what size discharge piping to use.
http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=11&TopicID=611&PagePosition=1
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jfinch
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Posted: June 16 2003 at 8:39am |
Quote: Originally posted by MarineAquatics on 16 June 2003
Also a closed loop as it is explaned I have never hered of doing but on any magnetic pump any suction through piping will cause premature wear on the impelor and may cause damage to the pump (any pump used in aquariums are magnetic)
Why do you say that? That's not been my experience, and nowhere in my Iwaki or Little Giant manuals does it mention this. Also, we've got a handful of mag drive pumps here at work with much higher suction pressures then 5 ft. If you want the most circulation you can get from a pump, closed loop is where it's at! Actually, I thought the principle of a closed loop was common knowledge...
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