Grass v. Tree

Thanks Jon- that one took a while and was quite enlightening.

the best algae (lump mangroves in there too) is the one that grows the fastest

In terms of nutrient removal, I agree. 

Adam

Adam- CO2 and H2O are the WET weight.  The dry weight really is the N and P products.  Trust me on that, I've done this experiment many times before and read many articles to make sure it was correct. 
I thought (after several months and conversations with Jake) that mangrove leaves would contain much more N and P.  We were definately both wrong.

Adam

Hey Adam:

That's a great article. Very informative, and well written. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I did an experiment in school a while back where we were doing a study on the amount of nitrogen fertilizer needed for certain crop plants. We did this by calculating the amount of nitrogen in various samples (which had been grown in  high nitrogen conditions). In our particular experiment we used the Kjeldahl method, which basically uses sulfuric acid to react with organic nitrogen. There are a couple steps, but it ends with a titration and the determination of the amount of nitrogen in the sample. I was surprised to see how much variation there is in nitrogen content from plant to plant.

You guy's are alot smarter than me ROCK ON! I love reading your posts.

I'm not certain that Mangroves grow as slow as you think. Have you seen how fast and extensive a Mangrove grows it's roots. In my Refugiums the roots have been several feet long

Mark, trust me, they'd have to grow that much every month.  And even then I don't think it would make a difference.  I couldn't believe it either.  I interviewed Adam H a little during this project to see just how fast his mangroves grow in the green house, and in his refugium.  His growth is well above average, but still no where near the reported algae growth rates.

Adam

I think another important consideration is where the nutrients are removed from. Mangroves take nutrients from the substrate and algaes take nutrients from the water (for the most part).

Perhaps an ideal refugium would have both.

The mangroves in my greenhouse were grown in cool to cold water. Wait a couple weeks when I get the new mangrove tank setup. The water will be 72-80 degrees and the mangroves will get full sun. Plus i'll be using fertilizer this time. Hopefully we'll see some better growth.

BTW, the chaeto in my tank is doubling in size every 5 days or so. Ive been pulling out a bunch the size of a basketball every week. Chaeto definately produces more biomass than mangroves.

Here is a link I just found that has some more data on the topic. I haven't read it yet, but it looks good.....

http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/Bot482/Kaneohe%20Bay%20algae%20 N-P%20Larned%20Mar%20Biol.pdf

Adam- funny thing.  That article you linked is actually the basis for a lot of my work.  I cited it in my article, and I read it like once a month.
Cortney made fun of me, because after reading that article I made my wife swing by Kaneohe with me on our honeymoon so I could collect algae from the same location as Larned.

Adam

Mark Peterson wrote: Adam, I would never dispute your research and I am not surprised by the conclusions, but I'm not certain that Mangroves grow as slow as you think. Have you seen how fast and extensive a Mangrove grows it's roots. In my Refugiums the roots have been several feet long and almost covered the entire bottom. That said, Mangroves are unique and novel but not easy to keep. They require more "head room" and require stronger light than Chaetomorpha and Caulerpa. Rock on Chaeto

Mark,

Mangroves can grow faster then most people think, but I can pull 6-7 handfuls of serrulata out of my tank every month.  That is like growing 2+ whole mangroves plants.  I don't think anyone gets that kind of growth. 

That said I think Mangroves are cool, if you can integrate them into you display in a eye pleasing manner.

Edited by Jake Pehrson