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    Posted: December 10 2009 at 9:29pm
I am setting up my 120 gallon tank.  I have modded my sump and this is what I have come up with. All I need is Utah sand. Still looking.
 
 
 
I love fish I want them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 10:14pm
One of the other reasons I do not use baffles especially on the return side is because evaporation drops the water level so fast in such a little area.
I have some of the whitest Utah sand and the most porous Utah rock you will ever see. Let me know if you are interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 10:42pm
Nice sump looks good Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2009 at 11:45pm
The only issue I see is the Bio Balls. Not the balls themselves but they will grow bacteria on them and if that bacteria is exposed to air it will die. I would find a way to keep them covered in water at all times.

I could be wrong on my whole thought process however. Mark?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 8:09am
Before I forget, there will need to be a strainer on the return intake.
 
Yes, that entire baffle area except for a short dam to hold the sand is what I would remove. Another very uneccesary baffle is on the far right side.
 
To be honest, the whole baffle thing baffles me. I have never used them and never found them to be necessary. The key is a good wall to wall growth of Macroalgae. It stops all the bubbles. A filter sock under the drain can really help if a hobbyist doesn't mind changing it regularly. There is greater benefit with a larger Refugium.
 
 
 
 
 
 
ConfusedWhy do we think that more complicated means better? Maybe it's because we just don't know. And when we don't know, we think, "Ahh here is someone that has really thought this out and developed this intricate maze of technology. Since I don't have the experience or the time to figure it all out, I will just pattern it after that one. The person that did that must be smarter than me so I will do it like they do it. The person that uses that simple setup probably does not know how to do something more intricate and complicated. That simple setup probably does not work."
Thanks for reading. Maybe I have spent too much time and effort in this hobby.Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 9:04am
I have to agree with you Mark. Although you can use a "baffled" sump and do just fine, I choose not to. In fact my sump consists of a 55 gallon AGA tank, with a DSB, lots of LR rubble and TONS of macro algae. I do use a skimmer, UV, and AC reactor; but IMO I could probably do without fairly easily. I also have caulerpa macro algae growing in my display for my tang and other herbivores. My nitrates are 0 all the time even with feeding some of the larger carnivores like my bluejaw trigger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Before I forget, there will need to be a strainer on the return intake.
 
Yes, that entire baffle area except for a short dam to hold the sand is what I would remove. Another very uneccesary baffle is on the far right side.
 
To be honest, the whole baffle thing baffles me. I have never used them and never found them to be necessary. The key is a good wall to wall growth of Macroalgae. It stops all the bubbles. A filter sock under the drain can really help if a hobbyist doesn't mind changing it regularly. There is greater benefit with a larger Refugium.
 
 
 
 
 
 
ConfusedWhy do we think that more complicated means better? Maybe it's because we just don't know. And when we don't know, we think, "Ahh here is someone that has really thought this out and developed this intricate maze of technology. Since I don't have the experience or the time to figure it all out, I will just pattern it after that one. The person that did that must be smarter than me so I will do it like they do it. The person that uses that simple setup probably does not know how to do something more intricate and complicated. That simple setup probably does not work."
Thanks for reading. Maybe I have spent too much time and effort in this hobby.Wacko
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Edited by beller - December 11 2009 at 10:36am
I love fish I want them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luckedout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 10:50am
It's not a bad set up by any means. I personally wouldn't use the bio balls, especially since it looks like you have plenty of space for a nice sand bed and some LR rubble, so what's the point of the balls. Otherwise I think it looks fine.

Yeah simple is better a lot of the time, but I don't think there's anything wrong with your setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:01am
so take out the bioballs and put in some rubble rock?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luckedout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:07am
With the bio balls you have to be careful and they need to be rinsed every once in a while. You have a nice empty space in the middle I'd put a deep sand bed in there with some LR rubble and then you have plenty of surface area for bacterial growth and you don't have to bother with rinsing the bio balls and risk having your tank spiking. (The whole purpose of the balls is surface area for bacterial growth, so it would be unnecessary with the LR and sand)

You could also throw some macro algae in that area and you have a decent refugium which in my opinion would be easier to take care of and is less likely to cause any spikes in your tank.

Again, this is my opinion as I'm sure people use bio balls quite successfully, but I'm a big believer of letting nature do what it does as much as possible.


Edited by Luckedout - December 11 2009 at 11:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CapnMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:08am
Yeah. The LR is going to do the same thing as the bioballs but better. I assume that the large middle section if for a deep sand bed with live rock and macroalgae? If this is true then you really don't need the balls, they will just trap debris and become a nitrate generator. When you get ready to set it up let me know if you need some macro to get you started. I have a few different kinds and could give you some for free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:17am

so dont put anything in that area were the bioballs are?

I would love some macro to get it started.
I love fish I want them all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bfessler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:50am
I'd just leave that section empty and let it work as a bubble trap. I would probably leave the eggcrate there to catch pieces of macro and such that may get loose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luckedout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:56am
Yeah, leave the egg crate. It also gives you a nice place to throw some carbon in a sock as long as you don't block too much flow.

 You can find Macro all over the place and I'd strongly suggest grabbing a handful of chaeto. It's a great macro and plus if you get it from an established tank it's usually teaming with pods that are very beneficial for you tank. Most people are willing to give it away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 11:57am
Bio balls = rock rubble and rock rubble = bio balls.

I don't understand the theory behind rock rubble being better than bio balls. They are both places where debris and poop can get trapped and slowly leach phosphates and nitrates into the tank. They block and slow down flow therefore stuff will settle like detritus.

I will be the devils advocate and totally throw you for a loop here. Don't put any sand or rock in your sump! If you want to run macro algae then put a ball of chaeto in there and a light over it.

I personally do not believe that a little 2 gallon area of sand and rock is gonna really do anything in the grand scheme of things. Have plenty of flow in the display tank and plenty of flow in your sump so that detritus can never settle. Thus you reduce the possibility of phosphates and nitrates leaching into the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luckedout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 12:03pm
Well if I'm looking at that tank right, I'd say it's probably a 55 gallon tank. Right? So really he's going to have about 30 gallon space for rock and sand. A deep sand bed and rock rubble = better surface area for beneficial bacterial growth. The other benefit is that you can put snails in the refugium to clean up your detritus which you can't really do with the bio balls. That way you don't have any detritus build up and you still get the benefit of more bacteria.

It's all about increasing the surface area for propagation of beneficial bacteria which convert your nitrates, etc. Bio balls do the same job, but you can't stick cleaners on them. Rock rubble and sand you can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremyw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 12:07pm
WOW this is a first....Im with Ryan on this...LOL

I go to these stores and see there show tanks and none of them have a Fuge... and they have AMAZING TANKS... and (no they dont replace things so it looks like things are growing) ...there corals and fish are actually growing like crazy some have been set up for years and no problems.

I go around to different tanks and see some gorgeous tanks that don't have Fuges. I see these tanks that the stores install and they dont have sand or rock or macro in there sumps and these tanks do great. So i have a really hard time seeing a benefit! Do the stores have Fuges hooked up to there systems? I can think of 3 maybe 4 stores in Utah I know for sure dont and they dont have problems with algae or diatom....


Edited by woottonjeremy - December 11 2009 at 12:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 12:13pm
Well if that sump is well thought out, which I believe it is, he will only be using half of that with water. If you are filling your sump up more than half way without proper precautions you are risking a serious flood should the power go out. So that middle section is maybe 10-15 gallons full?

I find it funny that usually all the loved tanks on this site don't run a refugium. I would argue that most here love Brad Syphus' tank. Last time I heard he doesn't run a refugium. Not a single tank at Reef Runners or Aquatica runs a refugium. You have plenty of surface in the display tank to filter your tank.

I would MUCH rather fill that big middle space with a HUGE skimmer and let it do the work for me. I have three tanks at home and not a single refugium on any of them.

http://www.rimlessreef.com/ - this tank doesn't run a refugium either.

I remember talking with someone in this club that had spoken with Eric Borneman on the issue of refugiums. He said they are a total waste unless you can match the display tank size. Actually on his forums over at Marine Depot he says we should all be using refugium style tanks that are 5x the size of our display tank. Just some food for thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by woottonjeremy woottonjeremy wrote:

WOW this is a first....Im with Ryan on this...LOL 

Quoted as new sig!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2009 at 12:21pm
Wacko
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