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nottinainthere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nottinainthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 2:43am

ok thanks guys ok i got .... hmmm

the tank has been fully cycled like it was set up 1 week before december. now its' ammonia 0 , nitrite 0 and 2 weeks ago nitrate is still 5 now it's 0. and yeah im using only 1 flourescent light previously bought for freshwater fish. i really have no idea how many watts there are. i think i bought the lights 6 months ago. oh and live rocks just 1 tiny one like probably 2 kilograms sorry i dunnoe how to measure in Ibs.

im not using undergravel filter. mechanical filtration.no ideea whats that. but i got this pump thing that sucks water and it goes above the tank into a compartment box that like goes through the sponge and below the sponge is a whole bunch of white colour thing that looks like a macaroni just that it doesnt curls. hmmmm i think i got a seachem marine buffer for raising ph to 8.3. and a Geoliquid for marine tanks. for the ph thing it work well it rise up to 8.3 yesterday.

hmm and no before the nitrogen cycle complete many other fishes died. like clownfish. bicolour pseudochromis. firefish goby . yeah all this fishes died before the nitrogen cycle is complete and 1 neon goby after. ( i wasnt good then i was told that only one week would be needed to cycle the tank ) it was later on that i got to realise everything then i started planning it seriously. currently im still having 3 chromis and 1 neon goby. all are eating well.

and sorry because i heard from the net live sand is recommended and not crushed corals as they said fish will not survive under such lousy conditions. so i was scared that my fish will die because i used crushed corals. and sorry about the arogonite thing because i saw it somewhere near live rocks so i assumed it's live rock. theres also few artificial housing in the tanks the chromis are all using one and the neon goby hides under the rock at night.

i decided to do a montly water change because some guy told me to do it once a week at 10 % . i personally felt it was too much and is not needed so montly would be good. but i have no idea whats litter critters in the substract is.

sorry for the late reponse because im living at the other side of the world and hmmmm. i could recognise certain stuff but i cant remember the names so sorry if i use a long long expression to represent them. thanks for your help. really. the previous forum i went really suck those people even chased me outta the forum. they said i asked too many qns and i did not listen to "good advice" they even said im a fish torturer

would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 6:58am
nottinainthere, May I ask, are you near India or somewhere in that part of the world? The reason I ask is because of some of the phrases you use. I talk to lots of people from India, and they would say "I'm still having 3 chromis..." when the way it would be said in the U.S. is "I still have 3 chromis'" To me, it's not right or wrong, just language. For some people it's difficult to accept the way others talk. People in the other forum were cruel and uninformed to say those things about you. It seems like you are really trying to do good with your aquarium. We can communicate. We just need to take it slow.

We don't really need to ask any more about the light, because we can say for sure that it isn't enough to grow much coral. Only the soft coral called mushrooms will grow with that light. But it is almost not enough light for them. The light that you might consider is a 30-40 Watt Power Compact (PC) Fluorescent light. You probably have 220 voltage electrical power in your country. Am I right? I do not know what sizes of PC lighting are offered for 220V.

The 2kg rock is about 5 lbs. That's not enough in my opinion. The fish need more LR to hide in and more LR would help your tank do better, but first we need to talk about circulation.

The HOB filter is moving the water a little, but not enough. Can you get a powerhead? That's a pump that runs underwater. It needs to move about 700-1000 gals.(approximately 3000 liter - 4000 liter) of water per hour. Two smaller 500 gph (gals. per hour) powerheads is better than one 1000 gph powerhead. More water movement will also help increase pH because the water is able to expel carbon dioxide (CO2) faster. More about CO2 in another paragraph below.

From what you said, I'm thinking (or here I could also say "I think" or "I assume") that you have a hang on the back (HOB) mechanical filter. That's a good thing for a 16 gal.(~60l) tank. Do you have access to activated carbon? It would be very good right now to use activated carbon. It kind of takes the place of a skimmer and big water changes.

During the first month, more frequent water changes are necessary. Now you can cut back to 10% monthly with no bad effects if you use activated carbon as described below. But always remember that large water changes can save a suddenly distressd tank.

You added too many fish, too soon for the filtration capacity. That's why they died . It wasn't the crushed coral, it was the new tank. How deep is the crushed coral on the bottom? It should be at least 2 inches or about 5cm. Three to four inches would be better, IMO. The term Live Sand (LS) simply says that there are bacteria and tiny organisms growing in and on the particles of substrate; your crushed coral.

Aragonite is the mineral we want the LS substrate and the LR to be made of. Aragonite helps keep pH and Alkalinity where they're supposed to be.

This reminds me to tell you to get a marine aquarium book and read it. Be careful though, any book older than about 10 years may have too much misinformation. This hobby is improving rapidly.

I don't know what geoliquid is, but for a new tank, supplements are usually not needed and are usually harmful rather than helpful. It's possible for an uneeded or overdosed additive to push pH down, requiring bufffer to raise it. Also all the fish you had and the feeding required for them was pushing your pH down.

Half of the bacteria that are eating the organic material (fish waste) in the water and substrate require oxygen to live. Those bacteria give off carbon dioxide (CO2) as do the fish and other little animals starting to grow from the LR and in the LS. When there is a lot of CO2 being given off, it pushes pH down.
If you can get some activated carbon, about 1/2 cup in a mesh bag, and place it in the HOB filter, that would clean the water of organic material. Cleaning the filter and replacing the carbon weekly should really help. After another month the carbon can be replaced monthly and the filter cleaned only when it's getting dirty.

I've said a lot here, probably too much all at once, but let's keep the discussion going.

Edited by Mark Peterson
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nottinainthere View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nottinainthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 8:30am

oh no i felt so stupid haha sorry im not in india i'm from singapore , and i've stayed in states for like the first 5 years of my life before moving here. so it's rather different language as we are using english from the UK. but i speak more of american accent it's just that sometimes i just rush through the forum 'cos it's just too time consuming. whatever it is , you guys could understand my stuff right ? like what i'm writing , i hope so or it'll be difficult to communicate.

now back to the fishes the crushed corals are like 1 inch or a little lesser . and yeah i got a book. it's called your first marine aquarium. by barrons i kinda like books from barron as they are very brief yet holds strong points , not long and boring and they got lots of colourful pictures. also i bought the previous guinea pig book from them so i kinda trust them. i'm just afraid to get crap books with irrelevent topics.

so what i gotta get is some activated carbon and powerhead, but is the activated carbon in a form of liquid and is the powerhead expensive. as im still a student , my budget is quite tight 

again i gotta say thanks for replying all my naive questions and not complaining for the tons of question i'm asking

would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 2:13pm
Are you teasing us? I'm wondering if I look like a

Did you mean that the crushed coral has a particle size of 1 inch or that it's 1 inch deep?

Which of these pics does it look most like?


The activated carbon is granules. Is there a pet store that you can go to and see activated carbon?

The pumps are very necessary if you want to keep coral and marine fish healthy.

A better light or natural sunlight will be necessary for you to grow coral.

This hobby is expensive if you want to do it well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 3:02pm

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:


This hobby is expensive if you want to do it well.

This receives the award for World's Most Surprising Quote. 

  I never thought hell would freeze over, but for Mark to say that.... well I can't think of any other explanation.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 4:54pm

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:


Frankly, I wonder how you justify the expense and time spent on such a silly hobby   

Its just a 25 gallon tank, it doesn't cost much nor does it take long to do. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Adam Blundell Adam Blundell wrote:

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:


This hobby is expensive if you want to do it well.

This receives the award for World's Most Surprising Quote. 

  I never thought hell would freeze over, but for Mark to say that.... well I can't think of any other explanation.

Adam

I second the nomination and we should award the prize.  The prize is a pair of hot glue end caps for flourescent light bulbs. hehe...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote imaexpat2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 7:43pm

Wow, Mark...you left me with nothing to say.

Expensive...yeah it is a bit of an expensive hobby, but for a 25 gallon or less...should be fairly reasonable.  What gets expensive in when you get hooked and your collection grows and you start going to a bigger tank!  Thanks when it started breaking my back

Yeah I definitely think your right about the power if memory serves me right, been there a few times.  If its not 220v then it 110 at 50 cycles.

nottinainthere

I agree with Mark, gotta boost that lighting a bit, add a little bit more live rock about 1/2 a kilo or slightly more per a gallon(1 gallon is about equal to roughly 4 liters) I'd say.  The carbon sounds like a good move as I think it would be tough to get a skimmer that small (I could be wrong but then again the smallest tank I have is 40 gallons - never tried a "Nano Reef"). 

I think the biggest mistake you made was you got some bad advice and you added way too many fish way to quick.  With the info Mark provided you, you should be well on your way to a nice tank in a couple of months.  This is a pretty intense hobby and there is a lot of info that can be confusing at times.  I have been doing this a while as I am sure everyone here has and I am still learning something new almost daily!  Just hang in there and good luck getting everything up and running good.



Edited by imaexpat2
300 gal. Frag System
300 gal. Live Rock Vat
240 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank
135 gal. SPS/Clam Reef Tank
75 gal. Softies only Tank
65 gal. LPS/Softies
24 gal. SPS/Softies Nano Reef
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 9:40pm
Oh come on you guys, you're me. I was kinda trying to with him when he said he's a student and because his tank needs so many improvements , and because he has a lot to learn. and because he was treated so by the ordinary forums, and because he wants to do it right and because I his efforts to get the right information and because he lives so far away that he can't come to our meetings and because if he did come he would get a big from all us friendly WMAS people!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 9:59pm

Okay, that is worse than trying to read abbreviations.  

What about the endcaps?  Only a few people still have a pair of the patented Mark P. endcaps. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2004 at 11:12pm
Spuma and I just made 12 of them! Maybe a pic would be appropriate.
But I need to make a correction. It's aquarium silicone, not hot glue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nottinainthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2004 at 1:59am

ok cool so it's a deep inch of crushed corals and it looks more like the second one the sand are really small and. i got a protein skimmer if i missed out saying that

i should be getting the stuff during the weekends. but this trip when i go should i get all of the above mentioned or just a little ?

would the taste of your lips i wanna ride your toxic come slipping on mine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2004 at 9:32am
Originally posted by nottinainthere nottinainthere wrote:

1)...a deep inch of crushed corals and it looks more like the second one
2)...i got a protein skimmer if i missed out saying that
3)...should i get all of the above mentioned or just a little?


1) The second one is not usually called crushed coral simply because it does not have the appearance of broken pieces of coral. One inch of either size substrate is not enough. It should be 2-4 inches deep, front to back, to do the job of filtration the way it should be done. Try to find a little LS to innoculate and add variety to the organisms to the substrate.

2)Is the PS working? The carbon isn't as important if the skimmer is working.

3)More substrate and LS is the most important thing you need. More LR is advisable, but the pumps are needed to help the LR do well. If you can afford it, get the power compact lights, blue/pink looks and does best, IMO, but if that's not available, blue/white. Look for a retrofit pc lighting kit to fit the hood (take the hood with you to the store, to see if the kit will work!).

btw - The book you said you have is nice but too brief. I know those books. If you really want to do it right get a better book. The better ones that discuss LS & LR filtration are usually US$30-60

Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2004 at 11:42am

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Oh come on you guys, you're me. I was kinda trying to with him when he said he's a student and because his tank needs so many improvements , and because he has a lot to learn. and because he was treated so by the ordinary forums, and because he wants to do it right and because I his efforts to get the right information and because he lives so far away that he can't come to our meetings and because if he did come he would get a big from all us friendly WMAS people!

I'll give Mark the award on this one for Most Overuse of Emoticons.  I agree with Marcus, it took a while to read.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2004 at 12:02pm
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